Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 28, 2024, 10:08:21 AMOver 4200 all purpose yards, 26 TD's and only 5 interceptions. 15 games for a Rookie QB. That's a year most QBs never come close to after 5 years or a career.

No I agree completely, I'm just saying the Texans don't have better talent than the Giants, they just had a Qb play out of his mind that elevated everyone around him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2024, 09:54:57 AMThere is a real difference in he situations.  The Bills were talented enough a team to make the playoffs the season before they drafted Josh Allen.  The Giants were so lacking in talent they were out of the playoffs by Halloween.

They did make the playoffs the year before though.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 28, 2024, 11:26:08 AMNo I agree completely, I'm just saying the Texans don't have better talent than the Giants, they just had a Qb play out of his mind that elevated everyone around him.

How would you compare the Offensive Lines?

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 28, 2024, 12:13:05 PMHow would you compare the Offensive Lines?

Keep in mind the Giants were without their starting LT (and only good linemen) for half the season

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 28, 2024, 12:13:05 PMHow would you compare the Offensive Lines?

They had the same thing happen to their line that happened to ours catastrophic injury. The way they overcame it was with phenomenal qb play. Being able to stress the back end of defenses does wonders for the offensive line. Look at every single one of their olinemen besides tunsil and I almost guarantee that this was hands down their best season and they were pedestrian before.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 28, 2024, 12:34:28 PMThey had the same thing happen to their line that happened to ours catastrophic injury. The way they overcame it was with phenomenal qb play. Being able to stress the back end of defenses does wonders for the offensive line. Look at every single one of their olinemen besides tunsil and I almost guarantee that this was hands down their best season and they were pedestrian before.

It also helped the Texans that even their backups played better than the Giants starters

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 28, 2024, 11:24:11 AMStroud elevated those guys, you don't think Stroud would do the same for Slayton, hodgins, Hyatt, and Robinson?? He would have.

The question wasn't "would Stroud elevate our guys?" Sure he would. The question was "are our guys better than theirs?" Absolutely not!

You're saying Slayton would have put up 30 more catches, 500 more yards, and doubled his TD output with Stroud? Don't think so.

Dell outproduced Wan'dale and did it in 4 less games. You're saying Wan'dale suddenly becomes a TD machine with Stroud? Don't think so.

The only one that's close is Brown vs. Hyatt, and even then I don't think Stroud is what makes a difference. Hyatt needs to mature as a WR, improve his technique and route-running, and become a more compete player. Stroud would elevate his stats a bit, but he's not going to help with any of those things Hyatt needs to do to improve.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2024, 08:18:38 AMHow did you determine what percentage of the improved play was natural player improvement versus the new coaching staff versus the new rookie QB?

I think that's a great point.  The offense clearly got better with Stroud but to say he made everyone better when they likely clearly developed on their own seems a stretch.  My conclusion ia the offense got better because of a better QB as well as development of other players.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 28, 2024, 12:48:08 PMThe question wasn't "would Stroud elevate our guys?" Sure he would. The question was "are our guys better than theirs?" Absolutely not!

You're saying Slayton would have put up 30 more catches, 500 more yards, and doubled his TD output with Stroud? Don't think so.

Dell outproduced Wan'dale and did it in 4 less games. You're saying Wan'dale suddenly becomes a TD machine with Stroud? Don't think so.

The only one that's close is Brown vs. Hyatt, and even then I don't think Stroud is what makes a difference. Hyatt needs to mature as a WR, improve his technique and route-running, and become a more compete player. Stroud would elevate his stats a bit, but he's not going to help with any of those things Hyatt needs to do to improve.

Slayton has had multiple 700 yard seasons with Daniel Jones, so with an actual qb it would be easy to see at minimum a 1,000 yard wr. I'm not saying Slayton is all that but he's not horrible and obviously would benefit a ton from a competent Qb

Wandale had Jones, Devito, and Tyrod and still had 500+ and would easily have been significantly better, at minimum the yardage that Dell had with an actual qb.

Just look at the numbers from our Wrs in the Tyrod games, if he had played all season getting the bare minimum qb play our wrs would have comparable stats.

I'm not saying we have superstars because obviously we don't but the talent level between the two teams isn't that much.

When it comes to Odds, the chance that the QB you choose will be successful, by whatever definition, is no better than 50/50 on average. And that is why it is a daunting challenge for any GM to decide when, where, and for whom, to choose as and when needed.

Perhaps, that's why I have always been reluctant to assume the role of GM. It's funny but I sometimes recall the time when I struck the wrong note in a very important chord which caused my piano teacher to remark in his very German accent: "You zee, it is not zo eazy, the piano playing."

But then it is a lot easier when you get a Do-Over.

Cheers!

Quote from: Painter on February 28, 2024, 02:36:30 PMWhen it comes to Odds, the chance that the QB you choose will be successful, by whatever definition, is no better than 50/50 on average. And that is why it is a daunting challenge for any GM to decide when, where, and for whom, to choose as and when needed.

Perhaps, that's why I have always been reluctant to assume the role of GM. It's funny but I sometimes recall the time when I struck the wrong note in a very important chord which caused my piano teacher to remark in his very German accent: "You zee, it is not zo eazy, the piano playing."

But then it is a lot easier when you get a Do-Over.

Larry: After many years (too many for both of us!) of living through the draft, I have concluded that a GM should only draft a QB when he's willing to take the risk of losing his job to the outcome. These days, picking the wrong QB can almost inevitably result in a financial (and on-field) death sentence for at least five years unless the rest of the team is super-solid (and that is very hard to accomplish in the salary-cap/free-agency era. Bob

What you've said is undeniable, Bob. Indeed, it's reflected in their current situation which I view as a consequence of misfortune as much as it is of misadventure.

It began with the need to draft a successor to the "retiring" Eli Manning which almost certainly would have resulted in misadventure had they taken a QB, Sam Darnold in 2018. Only Ed Vette gets to complain that it wasn't Josh Allen, some 5 picks earlier.

Whether or not they were expecting to add Justin Herbert with their No. 6 pick the following year, his decision to return and not enter could be seen as a miscalculation for which the extent of its misfortune isn't yet fully determined.

Moreover, no matter how negative our view of Daniel Jones may be, we cannot ignore the reality that throughout his time at Duke and ever since with the Giants, he has had to play behind what have been from poor to worse Olines and with no more than middling Receiver groups as a result of mostly failed attempts to gain improvement through FA and the Draft. And very little has yet to change in that regard.

In no way is that intended to justify or excuse the Giants performance with DJ, once described as being a bad stats/good tools QB. Rather, it's meant to draw attention to the fact that he will again be the Giants starting QB with the question: Has his future beyond this year already been decided for economic reasons, or is that not the case at all? Of course, either way that does assume that they won't repeat 2022's, all bets off, playoff game-winning season. Which, btw, some folks here might think of as having been a misfortune.

In any case, my only interest at present relates to the odds, the likelihood of the Giants swapping their 6 along with three 2nds, this year and next, for the Pats current No 3 overall in an effort to get either Maye or Daniels. It is my view that no matter who would be their QB, they have too many of the same enduring needs on Offense to justify such investment and the always accompanying risk.

Cheers!