Running thread chances that Daniel Jones (and Barkley) is back next season

[katkavage]

Would the Giants, knowing they are a couple of years away, get into a bidding war for Jones? Only Schoen can answer that.

[Jclayton92]

But it only takes one, and my guess is that there's more than one.  Including their roommates.

I agree, I don't want us to sign him but someone will.

[PSUBeirut]

What? You do realize that the franchise tag is around 33 million so that's the baseline for negotiating... I think you believe we are getting Jones on the cheap, we won't because he'll just sign with another team... its pay Jones 30-40 million or don't have him. Why would he accept a nonelite payday when someone will give it to him, that isn't logical... You don't think one of the 12-15 QB needy teams won't pay 40 million? They will.

As to the plan if we don't sign Jones, no one said anything about continously bringing in nonelite Qbs... You would sign a Brissett, Mayfield or whoever to a 1 year deal to compete with Tyrod and then draft a Qb in 2024... Have you looked at the 2023 schedule, it's brutal the likelihood we go on some magical playoff experience with or without Jones is slim. So why do it.. Again its a nice thought but there is no way on planet earth Jones' agent let's him sign for peanuts when at minimum he can get the tag or another team will pay him.

I'll go on record and say I'll be shocked if DJ signs a $40 million+ deal with anyone- especially other than the Giants.  I believe strongly that he is in the best possible situation, with Daboll, and he would be stupid to start over with another team because of a larger contract.  And DJ is not stupid.

Now, having said that- you are contradicting yourself here.  You said "I think Daboll and Kafka together could get a number of QBs to win 9 games and so do you need to pay 100s of millions when you don't have to."  Then you say "Have you looked at the 2023 schedule, it's brutal the likelihood we go on some magical playoff experience with or without Jones is slim. So why do it". 

So, again, I'm confused with your solution as to how we get an elite QB without severely overpaying either in cash or draft capitol.  If you truly believe Daboll can get lots of QBs to 9 wins (so why pay DJ), then there's no way we'll be in a draft position to draft an elite prospect (which...of course with the giant caveat....that is FAR from a sure thing either). 

The path forward is obvious- sign DJ to a reasonable deal and then build around him.  We have the cap space, we have the relationship where it's a mutual benefit to both parties to stay together, and it seems obvious this is what is about to happen.  Because the alternative is not a real plan- it's either a wish and a dream or a break the bank contract and it also concedes an entire year (year 2) in order to draft high enough to be in the elite prospect conversation. 

[GloryDays]

I think there are more than a couple of GMs who realize that Jones, with the right O line protection and Receiving targets, has the potential to be ELITE;
I also think Schoen and Daboll realize this too. Their comments at the presser told me that if they did not have to negotiate a favorable contract, they would tell everyone that they love Jones and his potential with the Giants.

[Rambo89]

I think there are more than a couple of GMs who realize that Jones, with the right O line protection and Receiving targets, has the potential to be ELITE;
I also think Schoen and Daboll realize this too. Their comments at the presser told me that if they did not have to negotiate a favorable contract, they would tell everyone that they love Jones and his potential with the Giants.

They also did mention that this is a business which tells me there will be a certain price they won't go beyond.

[Jclayton92]

I'll go on record and say I'll be shocked if DJ signs a $40 million+ deal with anyone- especially other than the Giants.  I believe strongly that he is in the best possible situation, with Daboll, and he would be stupid to start over with another team because of a larger contract.  And DJ is not stupid.

Now, having said that- you are contradicting yourself here.  You said "I think Daboll and Kafka together could get a number of QBs to win 9 games and so do you need to pay 100s of millions when you don't have to."  Then you say "Have you looked at the 2023 schedule, it's brutal the likelihood we go on some magical playoff experience with or without Jones is slim. So why do it". 

So, again, I'm confused with your solution as to how we get an elite QB without severely overpaying either in cash or draft capitol.  If you truly believe Daboll can get lots of QBs to 9 wins (so why pay DJ), then there's no way we'll be in a draft position to draft an elite prospect (which...of course with the giant caveat....that is FAR from a sure thing either). 

The path forward is obvious- sign DJ to a reasonable deal and then build around him.  We have the cap space, we have the relationship where it's a mutual benefit to both parties to stay together, and it seems obvious this is what is about to happen.  Because the alternative is not a real plan- it's either a wish and a dream or a break the bank contract and it also concedes an entire year (year 2) in order to draft high enough to be in the elite prospect conversation. 

You do realize that was 2 different conversations right? Saying that daboll could have had Brissett or whoever win 9 games like Jones did in one conversation and then in a seperate conversation say that we have a brutal schedule both things can be factual.  Daboll/Kafka could easily take a Brissett or whoever and have him duplicate Jones'stats and win 8 or 9 games, we got lucky this season with other divisions being down. The likelihood that 9-7-1 gets us into the playoffs next year is wishful thinking. That's even before we get into what paying nonelite Qbs have done for franchises.

I'm not sure if you've been hiding under a rock or what but Rich even just posted an article from the NYpost that blatantly says the starting point is 35 million... That's not reasonable, we would be paying him more than Cousins and Carr. There is no world were he takes 15 million less a year because he likes Daboll. So your notion that we are going to sign him for peanuts and build around him is a fantasy.. The baseline for his contract right now is 4Yr 140 Million with 80 or 90 Million guaranteed that is not peanuts.

Also just so you know most of the teams with elite Qbs currently made the playoffs the year they drafted their elite Qb. Mahomes, Allen, Hurts.

[PSUBeirut]

You do realize that was 2 different conversations right? Saying that daboll could have had Brissett or whoever win 9 games like Jones did in one conversation and then in a seperate conversation say that we have a brutal schedule both things can be factual.  Daboll/Kafka could easily take a Brissett or whoever and have him duplicate Jones'stats and win 8 or 9 games, we got lucky this season with other divisions being down. The likelihood that 9-7-1 gets us into the playoffs next year is wishful thinking. That's even before we get into what paying nonelite Qbs have done for franchises.

I'm not sure if you've been hiding under a rock or what but Rich even just posted an article from the NYpost that blatantly says the starting point is 35 million... That's not reasonable, we would be paying him more than Cousins and Carr. There is no world were he takes 15 million less a year because he likes Daboll. So your notion that we are going to sign him for peanuts and build around him is a fantasy.. The baseline for his contract right now is 4Yr 140 Million with 80 or 90 Million guaranteed that is not peanuts.

Also just so you know most of the teams with elite Qbs currently made the playoffs the year they drafted their elite Qb. Mahomes, Allen, Hurts.

Ok, so you just think DJ is trash and that's where you're coming from.  Good to know.  Even though he clearly showed this year that's not the case.  I mean, I don't think he's elite and I would scoff at another team seeing him that way (and paying him that way)- but I also think it's obvious that he's a good enough QB to win with (because.....they just did that...in actual NFL games this year). 

You not seeing your own contradiction is interesting- tells me you're clouded with disdain for Jones (you saying it's wishful thinking we win 9 games next year in the same breath you saying that Daboll could make that happen with any number of random cheap QBs like Tyrod, Brisset, etc.).  So I guess this conversation is over.  I just hope you remain a Giants fan when we re-sign Jones...because that's what's about to happen.  Take care...

[AZGiantFan]

I agree, I don't want us to sign him but someone will.

It's kind of funny that you and I have completely different assessments of DJ, yet I think it's fair to say that we agree on what we'd like to see happen.  I like Jones a lot more than you do, but we both think they should move on from him, start Taylor or a vet pick up knowing that will result in a step back, build out the roster, and hopefully draft our QB of the future in 2024.

[Rambo89]

Ok, so you just think DJ is trash and that's where you're coming from.  Good to know.  Even though he clearly showed this year that's not the case.  I mean, I don't think he's elite and I would scoff at another team seeing him that way (and paying him that way)- but I also think it's obvious that he's a good enough QB to win with (because.....they just did that...in actual NFL games this year). 

You not seeing your own contradiction is interesting- tells me you're clouded with disdain for Jones (you saying it's wishful thinking we win 9 games next year in the same breath you saying that Daboll could make that happen with any number of random cheap QBs like Tyrod, Brisset, etc.).  So I guess this conversation is over.  I just hope you remain a Giants fan when we re-sign Jones...because that's what's about to happen.  Take care...

I don't want to speak for Jess but I don't think he is saying that Jones is trash but rather that he is replaceable given that the Giants had a bottom third passing offense this season replacing that production is not nearly as impossible as it may seem on the surface.

As for your last comment it's completely unnecessary to imply that those fans who are critical of Jones or want to move on from him won't be Giants fans if he's resigned.  As much as I hated the Barkley pick I remained a Giants fan even though he was the wrong pick. 

[Jclayton92]

I didn't say Jones was trash. It's ok @Rambo89 he confuses me not wanting the team I love to pay elite money to a nonelite Qb as me hating Jones. In fact in multiple conversations on this thread and the other Jones thread I have said multiple times I would gladly welcome Jones back if we were paying him 15-20 million a year for a couple of years. The problem becomes when we make the playoffs and Jones beats Cousins he now has an argument that he deserves to be paid more than Cousins 35 million a year. Not to mention the tag is 33 million so if we resign Jones it will be for elite pay.

I don't have an issue with Jones at all, it's the team building that I take issue with like others here who are actually fans of Jones. AZ and I completely differ on Jones but agree on the team building. Teams don't win paying nonelite Qbs, it doesn't happen, a few years down the road they always end up cutting bait and just waste two years, and a lot of dead cap. That's not how teams that are winning now build teams. There isn't an example of it working. Tannehill, Cousins, Carr, Jimmy G, Goff, and so on.

If it's strictly about winning Super Bowls then walking away from Jones, building up the team, and finding an elite QB is the road there. Look at the Titans they paid Tannehill and Henry just to have their homegrown talent walk in AJ Brown and their defense because they couldn't afford them,they got 3 playoff appearances out of it and are now crashing. Its why Rodgers can't get help in Green Bay they are paying him too much, it's why the Raiders are getting rid of Carr.

If any other player on the Giants had an ok year, two horrible years, and one good year there wouldn't be a single person here banging the table for that player to be resigned making top 10-12 money at their position.

Imagine people wanting Jones here so bad even though they know historically that signing a nonelite QB to a 2nd deal is absolutely horrible for any franchise that has done it previously and still wanting it to happen.

[kartanoman]

I believe the bigger question, before deciding to drop or sign Jones, is how do you plan to deal with the NFC East defenses which love to feast on the Giants' offense. Whether it's Jones, Taylor, some FA signing or even your 2024 draft pick with the "it" factor, what difference does it make when you can't handle the pressure being thrown at you?

Get that fixed and, all things being equal, you can resign a QB who now has a history with this coaching staff, grab a journeyman off the street and then we have to listen to you b!Tch and moan that he sucks, during the season (NOTE: except we'll hear Daboll's and Schoen's names added to the rant and, if they could respond back, they'd say "well, you're the f'in genius who wanted this, now we have to listen to more sh!t from you???"), play Taylor, who gets beaten to a pulp and is carried off, Webb moves on to coach, and you may as well put the Scottish Hammer under center ... geez!

My point is you have begun the rebuild, you have your bookend tackles in place, you have far bigger issues to fix in the offense than the QB at this time, so do you waste the tackles' rookie contracts waiting for your golden boy to show up, or do you waste a year in order to give away your 2024, and part of your 2025 draft to get the next franchise QB? Meanwhile,you run the risk,in that wasted year, to further damage the little talent you do have, and fall even further behind in the NFC East.

If Schoen and Daboll believe Jones has the tools and make-up to lead this team to the big show, they'll keep him. If not, then they won't. I agree, however, that they won't overpay for him, either, and incentivize his contract to allow him to make more if he delivers more.

One choice limits others, and no choice is the obvious route to pursue, apart from signing Jones to a reasonable deal for both parties. If it doesn't work out, it's on to plan B. But it's neither a situation to break the bank for him, nor is it kicking him to the curb for Brissett or anyone else on the street,for a season. It has to be a move which puts the Giants' team in a position to move forward towards achieving their mission statement. Anything other than that, and Schoen will soon join the pile of discarded GMs and the Giants will regain their long standing title as the dumpster fire of the league.

Peace!

[TDToomer]

I don't understand why some people say a QB beat another QB. Qbs do not play against each other. Jones beat the Vikings defense, not Cousins.

[Jclayton92]

I don't understand why some people say a QB beat another QB. Qbs do not play against each other. Jones beat the Vikings defense, not Cousins.

Im not sure who the "other people" are but I can easily tell you why I said it. Because I was going off the NYpost article that Rich posted about Jones' contract.

From the Article:

Another way to reach that number would be to negotiate off Jones outplaying Cousins — his "best comparison," a second executive said — in the Giants' playoff win at the Vikings.

Kirk signed a one-year extension for $35 million, and I would say, 'I just beat this guy. I need to be above that,' " said Joel Corry, a contracts expert for CBSsports.com and a former agent. "The playoffs for Jones were one step forward, one step back. He has to look at the rest of the market and how other teams are going to look at him. You could be overplaying your hand to say, 'I'll take my chances in free agency if you don't franchise tag me.' "

When I was talking about Jones beating Cousins it was referring to him outplaying him in the playoffs and using that as leverage for his contract. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding 🤜.

[jimmyz]

What I think of Jones doesn;t matter especially since it seems to waver in recent months.  But what I think Schoen and Daboll believe is that Jones may not ever be great but can be a very functional part of a great team.  The reality is neither the Giants nor Jones have much in the way of better options.  Maybe somewhere along the way the team will get lucky and discover a day 2 QB gem or get 'lucky' and draft #1 in a draft with a bona fide blue chip qb prospect.  But until that day comes, signing Jones to a reasonable contract seems to be the best strategy for everyone involved.

[TDToomer]

Im not sure who the "other people" are but I can easily tell you why I said it. Because I was going off the NYpost article that Rich posted about Jones' contract.

From the Article:

Another way to reach that number would be to negotiate off Jones outplaying Cousins — his "best comparison," a second executive said — in the Giants' playoff win at the Vikings.

Kirk signed a one-year extension for $35 million, and I would say, 'I just beat this guy. I need to be above that,' " said Joel Corry, a contracts expert for CBSsports.com and a former agent. "The playoffs for Jones were one step forward, one step back. He has to look at the rest of the market and how other teams are going to look at him. You could be overplaying your hand to say, 'I'll take my chances in free agency if you don't franchise tag me.' "

When I was talking about Jones beating Cousins it was referring to him outplaying him in the playoffs and using that as leverage for his contract. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding 🤜.

I get all that but this QB beat QB analogy seems to come up often when discussing football. Like Eli beating Brady in 2 super bowls. No it was the Giants D that beat Brady twice. Eli beat the Patriots D twice.