Is "Tough, Smart, Dependable" an actual real thing?

[DaveBrown74]

First off, as I said in the Waller thread, I am 100% on board with this Waller trade because I know what his ceiling is and I think the Giants are getting him for the right price given the risks. I think he addresses a need area (big play receiver and red zone threat), and if he doesn't work out, they can get away from him after 2023 no harm no foul.

But this guy has a significant injury history. I wouldn't call it minor or even medium - I'd say it's similar to Barkley's or Shepard's, other oft-injured players the new regime has now opted to keep beyond the year they inherited them.

So I have to ask, while I'm happy about today, how real or serious of a mantra is "tough, smart, and dependable"? If it is, then how do you explain trading a decent pick and giving up $12mm of cap space for Waller and signing on to keep Barkley, Shepard, and not to mention Jones, who has suffered significant injuries in 75% of his seasons as a pro?

Is "tough, smart, dependable" an actual real thing with meaning, or does it just sound good?

[PSUBeirut]

My first gut reaction is that the word dependable doesn't just mean injury-free.  In fact, I think Barkley and Shep showed themselves to be extremely dependable last year, in different ways. Barkley not missing time even though he was dinged up and Shep, even though lost for the season, was about as dependable a presence on the sideline as you could ever want. 

[DaveBrown74]

My first gut reaction is that the word dependable doesn't just mean injury-free.  In fact, I think Barkley and Shep showed themselves to be extremely dependable last year, in different ways. Barkley not missing time even though he was dinged up and Shep, even though lost for the season, was about as dependable a presence on the sideline as you could ever want. 

Dependable may not "just mean" injury-free, but wouldn't that be an important part of what it means?

[PSUBeirut]

Dependable may not "just mean" injury-free, but wouldn't that be an important part of what it means?

Of course.

[DaveBrown74]

Of course.

Right, so the question in the OP still stands.

I guess your point is that maybe if a player is dependable in some ways but not in others, that's good enough.

As a fan of this team I'm just curious what it actually means, because we hear it all the time. If it's just a general, rough, aspirational guideline but not any sort of actual requirement, then that's fine, I just didn't know that.

[MightyGiants]

I look at Waller's injury history.   None of the injuries were serious.  They were the nagging type.  If we had a quality medical and S and C staff there would be no worries.

[EDjohnst1981]

I don't think it is, Dave.

If it was, I don't think you re-sign Shep. Nice guy, well liked and perhaps he's a camp body.

It's a nice soundbite but I think that's all it is.

[DaveBrown74]

I don't think it is, Dave.

If it was, I don't think you re-sign Shep. Nice guy, well liked and perhaps he's a camp body.

It's a nice soundbite but I think that's all it is.

People don't seem to want to concede this and appear to be stretching for explanations that avoid coming to the conclusion that you did, but I have to agree Ed.

Doesn't mean I think any less of our new regime (I have been high on them since day one), but I like to be able to distinguish between legitimate, firm guidelines and vague BS.

[PSUBeirut]

People don't seem to want to concede this and appear to be stretching for explanations that avoid coming to the conclusion that you did, but I have to agree Ed.

Doesn't mean I think any less of our new regime (I have been high on them since day one), but I like to be able to distinguish between legitimate, firm guidelines and vague BS.

People?  what people?  Me?  Like- me people?  I guess you mean me?  What a weird reaction.   

But I guess you're right- I am not personally willing to concede that the qualities Schoen and Daboll look for are mere soundbites or vague BS.  I think they probably put a good deal of stock into them- and just because they don't define them the way you might, so narrowly, that's ok. 

But I have no way of knowing how they define those words or how they measure those words against actual football players and I'm not going to pretend to.  But I definitely believe them that when they say this is what they look for in finding and acquiring talent, they mean it.  S

[DaveBrown74]

People?  what people?  Me?  Like- me people?  I guess you mean me?  What a weird reaction.   

But I guess you're right- I am not personally willing to concede that the qualities Schoen and Daboll look for are mere soundbites or vague BS.  I think they probably put a good deal of stock into them- and just because they don't define them the way you might, so narrowly, that's ok. 

But I have no way of knowing how they define those words or how they measure those words against actual football players and I'm not going to pretend to.  But I definitely believe them that when they say this is what they look for in finding and acquiring talent, they mean it.  S

Wow - are you really this tightly strung in real life? And I don't just mean the above post. You seem to frequently get overly defensive and at times a little hostile over such little things. Maybe try taking it easy for a change?

And actually, as it turns out, I had a conversation about this with an entire group of colleagues today at work, most of whom are Giants fans, and some of them pushed hard that "tough, smart, dependable" is a very real, binding thing despite evidence to the contrary. Others thought it was a just vague slogan and more or less meaningless. I thought I'd see what people here think. So no, despite your highly defensive freak-out, I was not just referring to this thread. "People" in this case referred to a large number of people.

I hope this got you off the ledge.

[Rambo89]

Good thread Dave and though this regime for the most part has done a good job to this point I do think it's fair to question this mantra when they go out and bring back Shepard and make a move for an injury prone player.

[AZGiantFan]

I look at "Smart, Tough, Reliable" as guidelines that are, by no means, absolutes.

[PSUBeirut]

Wow - are you really this tightly strung in real life? And I don't just mean the above post. You seem to frequently get overly defensive and at times a little hostile over such little things. Maybe try taking it easy for a change?

And actually, as it turns out, I had a conversation about this with an entire group of colleagues today at work, most of whom are Giants fans, and some of them pushed hard that "tough, smart, dependable" is a very real, binding thing despite evidence to the contrary. Others thought it was a just vague slogan and more or less meaningless. I thought I'd see what people here think. So no, despite your highly defensive freak-out, I was not just referring to this thread. "People" in this case referred to a large number of people.

I hope this got you off the ledge.

I'm good.  Not tightly strung at all, friend.  Glad you checked in on me.  Sorry I didn't realize you had had a conversation with a lot of other people about this, so I thought it was weird that you responded the way you did (I guess it would have been clearer if you had mentioned it).  That's all.  All good.

I do find it interesting that you found my reply to be a highly defensive freak-out.  I promise you it didn't feel that way when I typed it out and I'm having trouble seeing that. 

Anyway, yeah, I agree with some of your large pool of colleagues, I guess- I think it's probably a foundational piece of how the team is approaching it's players now.

[DaveBrown74]

I look at "Smart, Tough, Reliable" as guidelines that are, by no means, absolutes.

Agreed.

I think it's hard to be absolute about "dependable" as this is football and guys get hurt a lot and most miss games from time to time or full seasons even. But even if it is just a guideline, you'd think guys who are constantly getting hurt would be avoided.

[Jclayton92]

I look at "Smart, Tough, Reliable" as guidelines that are, by no means, absolutes.

Yeah I can agree with that. I think the Waller signing is more of Schoen win today setup for tomorrow slogan or whatever it is. I'm personally luke warm to all the signings so far but others seem happy.