Does Daniel Jones have enough talent now?

[MightyGiants]

If they really had faith in his ability, they wouldn't have given him a contract with a two year out and a boatload of incentives.

I can watch film and it doesn't take a guru to see missed opportunities left on the field and I can look at yards of Separation and see Bellinger, James and Slayton with 2-5 yards.

Highlighting this downside doesn't make him a bad QB, it just shows the need for improving time to throw in the pocket. It shows the need for speedy receivers who can gain separation and it shows that scheming receivers reduces his reads to one read.

Rich, I don't want to hear anymore excuses for this Offense. They may not get it right this year but by 2024, this team has to be a serious contender and not some team that had a few breaks go their way and then get humiliated by a real team.

Ed,

How do you know the two-year out wasn't there because of concerns over Jones staying healthy rather than doubts over his ability?

The Giants just pulled a win now team move by converting salary into bonus.  I think the Giants consider the 3-year intended length of DJ's contract as their window to compete for and possibly win a Super Bowl.  In my opinion, I think health will be the likely determinant if this year's team is a true contender.

I think this team will get a boost not just from the addition of talent but a significant boost by having a core of players who are in year two of this coaching system.  I also believe that Jones will be solidly top 10 as long as injuries don't decimate units on the offensive side of the ball.

Maybe, I am being overly optimistic, but that's what I am anticipating from NYG

[Ed Vette]

Ed,

How do you know the two-year out wasn't there because of concerns over Jones staying healthy rather than doubts over his ability?

The Giants just pulled a win now team move by converting salary into bonus.  I think the Giants consider the 3-year intended length of DJ's contract as their window to compete for and possibly win a Super Bowl.  In my opinion, I think health will be the likely determinant if this year's team is a true contender.

I think this team will get a boost not just from the addition of talent but a significant boost by having a core of players who are in year two of this coaching system.  I also believe that Jones will be solidly top 10 as long as injuries don't decimate units on the offensive side of the ball.

Maybe, I am being overly optimistic, but that's what I am anticipating from NYG

Yes because they have him an injury guarantee in his contract. Look, I get it. You've been supporting him for years and have argued against any comments that disparage him. They need the players around him to stay healthy and... they need those players to improve their respective Corp. By keeping Slayton, Hodgins and Shepard, it demonstrates that they weren't the problem. So let's fix that core issue and get him a superior Offense Line. If he had the Line Eli had of DD, RS,SO, CS and KM, they can score 27 points a game average with his arm, and running ability.

[Jclayton92]

I see us in year 2, really year 1.5 of a rebuild and so maybe my expectations are different but in no way am I thinking this is a win now window but let's compete every season while building up our depth and overall team talent until we get a few drafts in the books.

[todge]

I am not opposed to improving protection. I believe that you need to win in the trenches is a football truism.  I just appreciate there are many needs and while less than ideal allowing players to improve is likely going to be part of this season's plans.

Carl Banks spoke in his last podcast that the receivers last season needed to be schemed open.  The group couldn't beat their coverage with their own abilities. That is a less-than-ideal situation for an offense.  I also remember stats that showed the Giants' receivers being among the slowest groups in the league.

So when Schoen talks about the need for separation and adds "need for speed" receivers, he is trying to fix the issues, not with Jones but rather with the sub-par receivers of 2022.  If these receivers stay healthy, Kafka and Daboll will have great tools to put defenses on their heels.  With Waller's threat to LBers in coverage, defending the play action will be a nightmare for opposing DCs.  The LBers will be a step slow in defending Barkley (if they don't immediately bite on a possible play action), or if they do bite or even wait to see how the play goes, they will lose coverage on Waller.

The speed brought to the receiving room will also prevent safeties from cheating up to the LOS to help stop runs by Barkley and Jones.  That should help the running attack.

To Jones and his processing speed, it's difficult to discern this as outsiders viewing the tape.  The QB's coaching staff are really the ones in the position to judge.  If Jones' processing were not NFL caliber, it would be surprising that they gave DJ the contract they did.  So while you may be right in your assessment, I tend to think DJ's processing is fine.

I agree MG. There is nothing wrong with DJs "processing speed".  The Giants know full well that the issues he has are directly related to lack of time in the pocket and the incompetency of the WRs. The offense was constructed to minimize those issues.


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[True Blue]

I agree MG. There is nothing wrong with DJs "processing speed".  The Giants know full well that the issues he has are directly related to lack of time in the pocket and the incompetency of the WRs. The offense was constructed to minimize those issues.


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If our WRs are incompetent, why were they all resigned? along with Cager our backup TE?

I don't care to join in with the other arguments you can view my post history for that, but it is just odd how much we all seem to love our GM, but then he resigns all these incompetent people?

[Rambo89]

I agree MG. There is nothing wrong with DJs "processing speed".  The Giants know full well that the issues he has are directly related to lack of time in the pocket and the incompetency of the WRs. The offense was constructed to minimize those issues.


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If this was the case the Daboll/Kafka wouldn't have had to simplify the offense for Jones leaving him with easy throws to be made rather than an offense where he would have to process on the fly.

[MightyGiants]

If our WRs are incompetent, why were they all resigned? along with Cager our backup TE?

I am not sure the way your question frames the issue, you can get to the heart of the issue.   Shepard missed more games than he played and is coming off another major injury.   Shep and Hodgins were brought back at or near veteran minimum.  Slayton's contract was comparable with a low-end WR 3.

Perhaps the question you should be asking is-  Even before additions are made via the draft, why did the Giants bring in a mid-priced WR (whose salary is greater than the combined pay of all the players you cited) and a top-receiving TE?

[Philosophers]

OL is same group.

TE improved from a B to A- assuming Waller stays healthy for 16 games something he has not done past 2 seasons.

WR improved from a D to C+/B- with addition of Campbell however lost Wan'Dale due to ACL and he wont be close to 100% next season.  Plus, Campbell has to stay healthy for 16 games something he has not done.

We improved marginally.  Need a WR1 to be meaningfully better.

[True Blue]

I am not sure the way your question frames the issue, you can get to the heart of the issue.  Shepard missed more games than he played and is coming off another major injury.  Shep and Hodgins were brought back at or near veteran minimum.  Slayton's contract was comparable with a low-end WR 3.

Perhaps the question you should be asking is-  Even before additions are made via the draft, why did the Giants bring in a mid-priced WR (whose salary is greater than the combined pay of all the players you cited) and a top-receiving TE?

I don't disagree upgrades, depth and overall reinforcement are needed. I'm not arguing against that.

My thing in regards to the receiving corp, is if they are not good in anyway, why not sign other fresh faces for the same minimum salaries? If our GM deemed these guys inadequate, wouldn't changing the personell have more upside?

We still do not have a #1 specifically at WR, and we need one along with another depth addition with upside. Hell, we may even benefit from adding to TE still. I do not disagree with any of that. I just feel if they think these guys are no good, there would surely be other middling options that would in theory provide more upside.

[MightyGiants]

I don't disagree upgrades, depth and overall reinforcement are needed. I'm not arguing against that.

My thing in regards to the receiving corp, is if they are not good in anyway, why not sign other fresh faces for the same minimum salaries? If our GM deemed these guys inadequate, wouldn't changing the personell have more upside?

We still do not have a #1 specifically at WR, and we need one along with another depth addition with upside. Hell, we may even benefit from adding to TE still. I do not disagree with any of that. I just feel if they think these guys are no good, there would surely be other middling options that would in theory provide more upside.

Listening to Schoen, it's clear he has a preference for his own free agents (he knows their work ethic and injury histories better than outside candidates).  On top of that, this is a very weak WR free agent class, so bargains or even good options were not readily available among the outside UFAs.  There is also familiarity with the offense and Jones' familiarity with the receivers.

So I don't think Schoen was going to change for the sake of change or to shake things up.

[True Blue]

Dunno what everyone thinks of him, I'm not particularly intrigued, but the Bills just cut Isaiah McKenzie

[Jclayton92]

The truth is the Wrs that we had on the field were better than most gave them credit for in here last season. Especially  the starting 3 that ended the season. Wrs were just a crutch for Jones' small production.

The reality is we have the same exact starting wr core as last year with some new paint.

Richie James has significantly more production the past 3 seasons than Campbell In the same 3 year span yet Campbell is seen as a huge upgrade. Talent wise he probably is but production wise he isn't an upgrade.

Just really peeplexing to see the same people who blamed Jones' production on his Wrs be thrilled with retaining virtually the same Wr group.

[MightyGiants]

The truth is the Wrs that we had on the field were better than most gave them credit for in here last season. Especially  the starting 3 that ended the season. Wrs were just a crutch for Jones' small production.

The reality is we have the same exact starting wr core as last year with some new paint.

Richie James has significantly more production the past 3 seasons than Campbell In the same 3 year span yet Campbell is seen as a huge upgrade. Talent wise he probably is but production wise he isn't an upgrade.

Just really peeplexing to see the same people who blamed Jones' production on his Wrs be thrilled with retaining virtually the same Wr group.

The "truth" is that NYG receiving was ranked 27th by PFF.   There were a lot of injuries and a revolving door at the position.   By the end of the season, the trio of Slayton, Hodgins, and James wasn't terrible.  However, you really need to factor in (As the PFF grade does) the ever-changing roster at WR

Consider the snaps by WR

Robinson- 229 snaps
Toney- 35
Hodgins- 538
James- 606
Slayton- 507
Golladay- 267
Johnson- 324
Shepard- 108
Sills- 269

There is certainly a disruption factor both for Jones and the coaching staff due to the changing nature of the WRs this past season.   Sure at the end, things got a little better, but for most of the season, it wasn't nearly as good.

[Thegratefulhead]

The poll bothers me.

Do the Chief, Bills, Bengals or Eagles feel they have enough?

Are they they all trying to add more, every year.

This "enough" thing, is only about a ridiculous message board argument where no one can ever admit they are wrong or right.  Like our football acumen matters to anyone?  When the truly smart people in the know, in the industry read these boards, they assuredly laugh at our self importance.

So no, he never has "enough"

Does our talent match the Eagles or Cowboys? is the infinitely better question.

Enough is always moving.

[Ed Vette]

Robinson- 229 snaps
Toney- 35
Hodgins- 538
James- 606
Slayton- 507
Golladay- 267
Johnson- 324
Shepard- 108
Sills- 269
Two season ending injuries and a chronic who missed multiple games. They signed Golladay who was coming off of a serious injury and he never regained his top form. Yet, they sign two more players with injury history and bring back Shep coming off of injury. And the beat goes on...