Time for a serious, no-spin conversation about Daniel Jones

[Ed Vette]

The real killer for Jones tonight was the pick six to Witherspoon with a wide open Waller in the end zone. That said it all.

For some reason, the Oline was much worse in the second half. Was it losing JMS that screwed them all up? I want to watch the all 22 and get a better understanding of what transpired.

[Trench]

Very curious to hear from the Jones or bust crew on tonight's debacle.

Are we being too critical or over the top OR is it a dynamic situation and all cards are in play

[Philosophers]

I think it is sad to want to discuss one player when frankly we should be discussing honestly every player on this team.

Now I doubt DJ is the answer but at this point no QB can play effectively on this team including Mahommes.

I saw zero effort from everyone.  EVERYONE.  If I am Dabs, I'd say every starting position is up cor grabs this week and he is going to find 22 hungry players even if he goes to 4th stringers.  Time to stop being a player's coach.

[NY47GIANTS]

He stinks.

Today, he stunk.

For the last 5 years he has been stinking.

If you're still in the work force, can you imagine showing up to work everyday, and hearing how awful you and your coworkers are ALL THE TIME?!?

Except for Daniel.

No. In fact, YOU'RE the reason Daniel's metrics are so bad.

Is there a single person that wouldn't at least be a bit resentful?

Is there another player in league history with a red carpet of excuses longer than Daniel Jones?

Yet, if you watch these meaningless games, guys like Evan Neal, and Glowinski, and every other person maligned for our league worst Quarterback play are still BATTLING.

That's moxie.

I want guys like that on my team (maybe not starting in every scenario).

The desire to quit must be so strong in that locker room. Half the team already has.

Yet these guys get back up and take beating after beating knowing they'll get beaten again if they open the paper or read the news online.

I don't buy injuries either.

Every team deals with injuries. Pro bowlers are born through the next man up mentality.

This is why guys PLAY HURT.

No one in the right mind is playing hurt so they can end up being an excuse for Daniel Jones.

It's pathetic, really.

Are they tanking for Arch?

Something about the timing on the term of that TERRIBLE contract is piquing my interest.

[DaveBrown74]

Jones is showing total class in the presser and taking full ownership. He said his level of play was "unacceptable" and that he let the team down. When asked about the sacks, he just said "credit to their defense." He is totally facing the music like a man here.

I have absolutely nothing against this kid personally. Quite the contrary. He is a class act, a man of integrity, a great athlete, a nice guy, and an incredibly hard worker. None of that is lost on me, and that stuff matters a lot more than a game.

But I'm also a hardcore Giants fan, and I want the team to win, and I'm just not convinced he is worth all this money and the multi-year commitment. I feel like I've been patient with this player, and the patience just simply isn't paying off.

[Trench]

I think it's smart to discuss the one player who is the face and financial linchpin of the franchise

[AYM]

We may get a QB but Mara will not pull
the plug on this GM/coach regime. Will NOT happen. That said, Kafka/Wink/Disaster Special Teams coach will move
on next year.

If we're in position to pick one of those guys, it means we likely only win 1-2 more games this year. That would represent not only an arrow pointing down, but would be worse than any season Reese or Gettleman had, meaning Schoen made a bad team even worse.


At that point you get a new everything. GM, coach, scouts, and QB. Start from scratch.

[Trench]

Jones is showing total class in the presser and taking full ownership. He said his level of play was "unacceptable" and that he let the team down. When asked about the sacks, he just said "credit to their defense." He is totally facing the music like a man here.

I have absolutely nothing against this kid personally. Quite the contrary. He is a class act, a man of integrity, a great athlete, a nice guy, and an incredibly hard worker. None of that is lost on me, and that stuff matters a lot more than a game.

But I'm also a hardcore Giants fan, and I want the team to win, and I'm just not convinced he is worth all this money and the multi-year commitment. I feel like I've been patient with this player, and the patience just simply isn't paying off.

Agreed 100%. I'm a Jones fan. But he simply doesn't have the next level it factor. Time and again he doesn't show up in prune time games

[True Blue]

I still think DJ is a solid QB, issue is, everything around him needs to go well for him to do well. Even then it's inconsistent

Last year we overachieved, against bad teams in a weaker NFC and a easy schedule. It was fools good and we were then overrated headed into the offseason. That is an error on Schoen and Dabs end

I still think that they are a great coach and GM, you don't win coach of the year flukefully, they made a mistake and I am sure they realize that and will do what needs to be done to correct it. There is a reason they designed an out on DJs contract. They had a plan B, and their hand was forced in any scenario there wasn't a good option for them better than Jones this year

I think DJs play is hurting the offense more than people think. Losing Barkley, AT and the bad OL hurt too. DJ is not the only issue here, OL still needs work. They need a #1 guy aside from Waller, Wandale, Hyatt and Hodgins are good 2s/3s, but they do need a top dog in that group, and they need a QB that will elevate them all and take the team to the next level. DJ won't succeed even if they find that guy, whereas a legit great QB would be able to win with this group.

Finding those guys are easier said than done, if they are in position they will need to make sure they get it right.

They need to be at least given a chance to pick their own QB and have 2 seasons with that QB playing before we talk losing jobs.

[Jclayton92]

Our mistake was at the deadline last year.  Not trading Barkley created a Domino affect that ended with us resigning a QB that until last season had equal numbers to that of Trubisky and Darnold.

We should have traded Barkley, Jones, and everyone we could outside Lawrence and Thomas to start the full rebuild. We haven't had an actual rebuild in almost 2 decades because of seasons like 2016 and 2022 were the organization doubles down on a house of cards.

Daniel Jones has never been the answer, 3500 yards and 15 tds was an excellent season to most, we've been so starved of great QB play for so long that those pedestrian numbers passed as excellent.

I don't care if it's a backup, or a ball boy, these guys on offense won't make it another season with Jones throwing 4 yard outs EVERY drive.

Pray someone offers a 3rd or 4th for Jones and ship him off. I'd rather see Taylor play or Devito. Defenses honestly pin their ears back and dare Jones to throw and he refuses to.

The 5 year daydream/honeymoon is over.

Yes there were 11 sacks, but man I don't know that Jones does anything different with a perfect pocket.

[the12th man]

Spending 40mil on a QB and give him this OL to play (?) in front of him is a joke! There is not a QB in this league that could win behind what is considered a O-Line.

[Messiah717]

The bottom line is in two home games they have scored a total of three points.  With Miami and Buffalo on the horizon this isn't going to get any better.  While it's not all his fault and the line is putrid.  When things go wrong Jones collapses with the rest of the team.

[DaveBrown74]

Tim (T200) made an excellent point in the game thread last night. He said,


"He [Jones] doesn't always have plenty of time. But when he does have time, it's always to the closest receiver. He doesn't look downfield. That's why defenders jump the short routes - they know he's not throwing deep."


I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Obviously anyone with two eyes could see that Jones was facing jailbreak type rushes on plenty of passing downs (mostly in the 2nd half). That is not a question. But he also had a significant number of downs where he had time, including a handful where he had quite a lot of time. And he just always seemed to check it down. After a while this affects how a defense plays you. If you never challenge them deep, they can just send everyone and not be that worried about getting beaten over the top. This exacerbates things with the O line.

I know many believe "nobody is ever open." I think for many, the term "open" seems to mean no defender within at least five yards of the receiver. If that's the bar for Jones, then yes, he will have to check it down a lot. But that is not the bar for other QBs around the league. If you watch other QBs, they throw into tight windows, they throw jump balls where the receiver is covered, they make sideline throws into single coverage, etc.

Jones has both size and speed in his receiving arsenal. He has options. He didn't use them last night.

[JT39]

It's ok to think Jones should force the ball down the field more and take chances. Hell, Eli did it a lot during his career that led to many great plays and also bad ones too. It's five and take.

However we also have to concede that Darius Slayton is a very poor player at this point and Paris Campbell is a waste of a roster spot.

Those two are combing to making 9 million a year. Just another thing to add to the list of things troubling the Giants.

[Rambo89]

John Mara said in January 2022 that the Giants had done everything to mess him up.  On the flip side they've invested more into Daniel Jones and been more patient with him than any other team in the league in today's game would be with a QB that has been as unproductive that has been a part of as much losing as he has.  No QB has had their franchise invest 2 Top 10 picks and a 2nd round pick into their offensive line.  No QB coming off a 3,000 yard 15 TD season and even when you account for his rushing yards has been handed the contract Jones was last off season.

This was supposed to be a season where Jones in his 2nd year in the offense with an improved supporting cast that he was supposed to take the next step in his career.  Instead he has regressed.  And yes, the offensive line has been shaky.  He's become predictable in how he reacts to the situations he is presented with.  When the pressure comes he's either looking to run or his check down receiver.  And defenses know it.  You heard the 49'ers after that game point it out.  Seattle knew it too last night and played him the same way.

The only question I have to the coaches is what responsibilities does Jones have at the LOS pre snap.  Does he have the option and ability to audible or is he just supposed to run the play he is given?  If it's the latter then I would ask why hasn't he been given that option.  If he does have the option to audible and adjust based upon what he's seeing then unless I am missing something I rarely if ever see him audible.

Bottom line for me is that Jones isn't the answer long term.  I even felt that way after last season that while he is a solid average QB he'll never be good enough to win with consistently.  I was ok with his extension and being able to get out from the contract after 2024 but unless he pulls a 180 and the Giants completely turn their season around if they end up with a Top 10 pick they need to seriously consider drafting a QB in the first round in 2024.