Joe Banner- Daniel Jones Is Not to Blame for this New York Giants Mess

[Rambo89]

No way that ball gets to Hyatt.  Need another player in the middle as Jones's check down or underneath route for him to go too cause there is little chance he's throwing to Hyatt.

[katkavage]

I get a sense not everyone watched the video. 

Perhaps the most relevant line from Joe Banner, in reference to Jones not doing well on the plays that he has good protection: "People don't understand the psyche once a QB loses confidence in his offensive line.  It permeates everything he does including the plays in which he has good protection"

If so, Jones is definitely not the QB I want for the Giants. I want a QB who can rise above it. Lead. Permeate confidence.

[GloryDays]

I would add two points to this good discussion on the glaring Giants problem :

1- I believed than DJ is elite. I might have been wrong. There is a fine line between elite and very good. Elite QBs can dust themselves off after each sack or pressure and calmly but quickly assess the action on the next plays and still throw the ball to any receiver that has a bit of separation. Jones looks like is not one of those QBs since in this last game where he was under constant pressure, he paniced and missed open guys; however, DJ has shown many times that when he has a reliable pocket CONSTANTLY, he can do his job well. If I am right, then he is a very good QB and the goal should be, and it should have been, to make sure we have a good O line to protect his pocket, not the crap that they have put together, based just on hope and quite unprofessionally.

2- Not every scout or GM who is a knowledgeable football guy, even a great one, has the ability to assess talent at all positions. Schoen and his staff obviously have not much clue in correctly evaluating O line talent. It does not matter how much draft or FA Capital is devoted to fix the line, their choices are more wrong than right. Hitting on one out of 3 high picks makes it clear. It's like you take a Mercedes with a transmission problem to a reputable shop that specializes in Japanese engines. They can not fix it themselves.

[H-Town G-Fan]

If so, Jones is definitely not the QB I want for the Giants. I want a QB who can rise above it. Lead. Permeate confidence.

And it took what... 4 games this season to break him? Is he that fragile?

[Woody]

What about o line coaching? Isn't that a factor as well for their poor performance?


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[DaveBrown74]

What about o line coaching? Isn't that a factor as well for their poor performance?


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Maybe, but since Jones was drafted we have already been through a handful of O line coaches, all of whom keep getting fired. We've been through 3 head coaches so far. We've been through 4 offensive coordinators plus the former offensive coordinator of Josh Allen, considered one of the top offensive minds in the game today. We've thrown countless resources at the O line. We have spent a ton of money and draft capital on wide receivers and tight ends. We have one of the highest paid RBs in the league. We keep throwing resources at the offense, year after year, and the results don't improve.

The only thing that has stayed the same all this time has been Daniel Jones. Maybe it's time to look at him instead of only looking at what's around him.

[Woody]

Maybe, but since Jones was drafted we have already been through a handful of O line coaches, all of whom keep getting fired. We've been through 3 head coaches so far. We've been through 4 offensive coordinators plus the former offensive coordinator of Josh Allen, considered one of the top offensive minds in the game today. We've thrown countless resources at the O line. We have spent a ton of money and draft capital on wide receivers and tight ends. We have one of the highest paid RBs in the league. We keep throwing resources at the offense, year after year, and the results don't improve.

The only thing that has stayed the same all this time has been Daniel Jones. Maybe it's time to look at him instead of only looking at what's around him.

Maybe , but a good o line coach teaching technique blocking schemes etc is a very valuable asset. I remember David Deil talking about o line coaching when there was a change some time ago..  how different coaches teach stuff much different than others. Pat Flarhetys name comes to mind ....under Coughlin I believe and he was praised often by head coach and in NFL circles. Well respected through out the league .
Who is the Giants o line coach.... Should he be held accountable as well ? Giants have drafted linemen very high in draft last few years.. talented players, ranked high in draft ....what happens ?
Are they all busts?  Or not being coached to perform at NFL level?


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[DaveBrown74]

Maybe , but a good o line coach teaching technique blocking schemes etc is a very valuable asset. I remember David Deil talking about o line coaching when there was a change some time ago..  how different coaches teach stuff much different than others. Pat Flarhetys name comes to mind ....under Coughlin I believe and he was praised often by head coach and in NFL circles. Well respected through out the league .
Who is the Giants o line coach.... Should he be held accountable as well ? Giants have drafted linemen very high in draft last few years.. talented players, ranked high in draft ....what happens ?
Are they all busts?  Or not being coached to perform at NFL level?


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Yes, I'm sure the Giants can do better at O line coach and I'm not suggesting it doesn't matter. I think a good O line coach definitely matters. It just seems we're having this conversation over and over (not you and me but Giants fans in general).

[MightyGiants]

Maybe, but since Jones was drafted we have already been through a handful of O line coaches, all of whom keep getting fired. We've been through 3 head coaches so far. We've been through 4 offensive coordinators plus the former offensive coordinator of Josh Allen, considered one of the top offensive minds in the game today. We've thrown countless resources at the O line. We have spent a ton of money and draft capital on wide receivers and tight ends. We have one of the highest paid RBs in the league. We keep throwing resources at the offense, year after year, and the results don't improve.

The only thing that has stayed the same all this time has been Daniel Jones. Maybe it's time to look at him instead of only looking at what's around him.

How did things go in 2021 when Jones got hurt?  Did the O-line soar?

[DaveBrown74]

How did things go in 2021 when Jones got hurt?  Did the O-line soar?

Incredibly poorly. Mike Glennon and Jake Fromm were non-NFL QBs. Jones is obviously significantly better than them. Those guys have not played in the league since. Not sure what this demonstrates. If the point is that Jones isn't as bad as Mike Glennon I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

[Jclayton92]

Incredibly poorly. Mike Glennon and Jake Fromm were non-NFL QBs. Jones is obviously significantly better than them. Those guys have not played in the league since. Not sure what this demonstrates. If the point is that Jones isn't as bad as Mike Glennon I would agree with that wholeheartedly.

Do you think a backup on a roster currently in the NFL could do more right now on the Giants than Jones has this season?

[True Blue]

Do you think a backup on a roster currently in the NFL could do more right now on the Giants than Jones has this season?

I might get alot of angry quotes for this, but I think this team can run a bit better with Andy Dalton, Brissett, Heinecke, Lock and those types of guys. At worst, the offense is equal with alot of money saved for building the roster.

Jones is significantly better with his legs, but his arm talent is not very high, even if it was he just checks down anyways

Jones is more talented than those guys as far as running and overall physical gifts. The problem is he is unable to use those gifts because he has too many mental blocks. Those other guys are gonna take the shots when they are there

[DragonSoul]

QB's like Burrow and Herbert have no issue sitting in the pocket stepping into throws taking a hit while making plays.  Seems like that leaves a QB just as vulnerable as it does taking off and running where you are open to taking hits. No?

I guess you missed how well burrow & Cinci have played this year. Saw his last game and he looked bad vs that defense when the oline was an open flood gate. Reminded me of watching DJ & the Giants.

Pass YdsYds/Att   Att   Cmp   Cmp %   TD   INT   Rate   1st   1st%   20+   40+   Lng   Sck   SckY
DJ 765   5.8   131   90   68.7   2   6   69.7   35   26.7   8   1   58   22   131

JB 728  4.8   151   87   57.6   2   2   69.1   36   23.8   4   1   43   8   64

DJ actually has slightly better numbers & no number 1 wr unlike JB & look at the sacked diff. DJ is nearly sacked 3x more. And 2 ints that DJ has were SB giveaways. Thanks for brining up burrow.

[Ed Vette]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38575845/how-calf-injury-affecting-bengals-joe-burrow-quarterback

[Rambo89]

I guess you missed how well burrow & Cinci have played this year. Saw his last game and he looked bad vs that defense when the oline was an open flood gate. Reminded me of watching DJ & the Giants.

Pass YdsYds/Att   Att   Cmp   Cmp %   TD   INT   Rate   1st   1st%   20+   40+   Lng   Sck   SckY
DJ 765   5.8   131   90   68.7   2   6   69.7   35   26.7   8   1   58   22   131

JB 728  4.8   151   87   57.6   2   2   69.1   36   23.8   4   1   43   8   64

DJ actually has slightly better numbers & no number 1 wr unlike JB & look at the sacked diff. DJ is nearly sacked 3x more. And 2 ints that DJ has were SB giveaways. Thanks for brining up burrow.

Come back when Daniel Jones puts up a full regular season that Burrow has put up in each of the last two seasons then we can talk about comparing him to Burrow.  The QB's Jones should be compared to are players like Alex Smith, Geno Smith, Jimmy Garoppolo and Derek Carr.  That's the level he's on until proven otherwise.