What a difference a name can make at QB

[DaveBrown74]

does that affect the linemans score though? if they get beat they get beat. the scores show they played much better this week.

I think there is nuance to that point. "Getting beat" can happen when a lineman does a solid job blocking but eventually the pocket collapses. A QB who gets through his progressions faster and releases the ball more quickly is going to help his O linemen's scores, all things equal, because once the ball has come out, "getting beat" no longer applies.

[Doc16LT56]

Or maybe the QB was more adept at pocket manipulation, rush awareness, and processing speed/effectiveness. He also took more shots downfield which impacts what kind of looks you get from the defense.

All true. In addition,there is some PFF data floating around out there that suggests this week's pressure percentage was similar to the first 5 weeks but Tyrod's pressure to sack percentage was about half that of Daniel Jones.

[McGIANTS]

Hello BBH. It's been a while since I last posted. Let's not forget that Taylor has a lot more experience than Jones too. Plus I think the broadcast said he played for six different teams. So you would think he would pick up a few things in his time in the league. So naturally he would look better than Jones. But they still didn't score any touchdowns.

[Doc16LT56]

Hello BBH. It's been a while since I last posted. Let's not forget that Taylor has a lot more experience than Jones too. Plus I think the broadcast said he played for six different teams. So you would think he would pick up a few things in his time in the league. So naturally he would look better than Jones. But they still didn't score any touchdowns.

Welcome back. Unfortunately the Giants paid Daniel Jones to be the leader this team needs. He hasn't gotten it done and it's not clear he's any better than the journeyman Tyrod Taylor. This is what they call QB hell.

[DaveBrown74]

So naturally he would look better than Jones.

So you think it has been obvious this whole time that Taylor is better than Jones? If that's the case, why play your inferior QB all year? And why pay him 7.2x as much per year as the better QB? Why not just roll with the better QB at $5.5mm per instead of $40mm per and then spend the difference on other talent?

[Bob In PA]

Welcome back. Unfortunately the Giants paid Daniel Jones to be the leader this team needs. He hasn't gotten it done and it's not clear he's any better than the journeyman Tyrod Taylor. This is what they call QB hell.

Doc: I ordinarily object to the less-than-flattering posts about Jones, but not this one.

I agree Jones doesn't show what I hoped for (like what I see from most current top-flight NFL QB's).

The only possible response is that there are multiple ways of leading, including obvious ones like "by example" and "by cheer-leading" etc. 

The Eli Manning "strong-silent-type" thing is difficult to pull off (and possibly too subtle for your average NFL player to identify with). If that is also Jones' approach, fans probably won't see it due to lack of access to the locker-room and other off-field moments.

Still, I find it disconcerting that Jones somehow never gives the impression he BELONGS on the field with the rest of the guys, not because he fails to jump around like an idiot (as do most) but because there's something awkward or clumsy or out-of-the-ordinary out his body language that simply does not inspire confidence. 

Bob

PS. I'm trying to make a point not easily made. Hope I haven't been too far "out there" with this attempt.

[Trench]

The sole reason we almost won that game was the defense was lights out. It's pretty obvious.

Had nothing to do with TT, who couldn't muster a single TD drive. He had more to do with us losing the game then he did in almost winning it.

BS!...Taylor moved the ball and made SEVERAL 1st down plays!...how many did we have when the other guy was at QB?

[Uni]

Doc: I ordinarily object to the less-than-flattering posts about Jones, but not this one.

I agree Jones doesn't show what I hoped for (like what I see from most current top-flight NFL QB's).

The only possible response is that there are multiple ways of leading, including obvious ones like "by example" and "by cheer-leading" etc. 

The Eli Manning "strong-silent-type" thing is difficult to pull off (and possibly too subtle for your average NFL player to identify with). If that is also Jones' approach, fans probably won't see it due to lack of access to the locker-room and other off-field moments.

Still, I find it disconcerting that Jones somehow never gives the impression he BELONGS on the field with the rest of the guys, not because he fails to jump around like an idiot (as do most) but because there's something awkward or clumsy or out-of-the-ordinary out his body language that simply does not inspire confidence. 

Bob

PS. I'm trying to make a point not easily made. Hope I haven't been too far "out there" with this attempt.

Are you saying Jones is... comical out there?

[BluesCruz]

Jones was exposed

- slow reactions
- slow release
- scared to throw 50/50 balls downfield
- does not go through the possibilities, birddogs the receiver- usually a dump off

[Doc16LT56]

I agree Jones doesn't show what I hoped for (like what I see from most current top-flight NFL QB's).

I think I see where you're going with this thought. I guess the question for you (and Mara, Schoen, Daboll, etc) is to what degree it's affecting or not affecting the team, and whether you expect to see progress over the rest of the season and into next season.

[Stringer Bell]

BS!...Taylor moved the ball and made SEVERAL 1st down plays!...how many did we have when the other guy was at QB?

I know all you want to do is disparage DJ in every post possible, but this has absolutely nothing to do with him.

It's a pretty weak argument to say a QB "made several first downs" during a game he led the offense to 0 TDs. Which, again, makes it pretty clear that the defense had everything to do with that game being close.

[Trench]

I know all you want to do is disparage DJ in every post possible, but this has absolutely nothing to do with him.

It's a pretty weak argument to say a QB "made several first downs" during a game he led the offense to 0 TDs. Which, again, makes it pretty clear that the defense had everything to do with that game being close.

It's not a disparage. It is a fact from the game. If you go read my posts I have always supported Jones being out QB (but when he doesn't hit the mark I call it out)

[Stringer Bell]

Would the defense have played as well if they had to play more snaps?  The offense play calling was very conservative, had no turnovers, and no unblocked pass rushers hitting the QB before he could see them coming (was OL just better or was it Taylor's influence on calls at the line and his own pocket skills?).

Would the Giants have made this game plan for Jones and would Jones execute it more efficiently?

To the former, there is no evidence this season they would have tried this plan with him.

To the latter, I think this is another thread of the QB discussion we've discussed all year.  I think the Jones of last season would have executed it better than Taylor.  The Jones of this season after five games, I don't he would have.  The play that comes to mind was Taylor's throw the blitzing side or when Barkley went out for reception instead of blocking when recognizing the situation.  Jones regressed in handling those situations this year.

WAY too many "ifs" and unknowns for me to even comment.

I think it's a leap to attribute improved OL play on a QB' calls. And I also think that, while TT did move well in the pocket, the data doesn't support that as being the difference between his performance and Jones'. There were several games with DJ starting that the data shows he faces pressure in 2 seconds or less. Had TT faced that same level of pressure, his pocket presence would not have made any difference.

There have definitely been recognition issues on DJ's part this season, but I do think you're onto something re: the gameplan and playcalling being different. Would be interesting to see what would happen with the same plan and DJ under center.

[Stringer Bell]

It's not a disparage. It is a fact from the game. If you go read my posts I have always supported Jones being out QB (but when he doesn't hit the mark I call it out)

The topic was the defense and TT, but you just couldn't help yourself in making it about DJ. It's so transparent and tiresome.

DJ didn't play in the game. Let's actually talk about those who did instead of beating a dead horse.

[Trench]

The topic was the defense and TT, but you just couldn't help yourself in making it about DJ. It's so transparent and tiresome.

DJ didn't play in the game. Let's actually talk about those who did instead of beating a dead horse.

Nope. If we are talking Tyrod then Jones is in the discussion.