Do the Giants have a QB controversy?

[MightyGiants]

Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
"QB controversy" aside, we have to acknowledge what Tyrod Taylor has done better running this offense: Throwing downfield and navigating the pocket. Thoughts on Taylor and more from today's


Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Not getting into these mentions. You can read the story for the nuanced take. But here are my thoughts, to be clear:

1. Jones will be the starter when healthy.

2.  Jones should be the starter when healthy. Just gave him $160M. Can't bench him for a 34-year-old journeyman after five games.

3. Aspects of the offense have looked better with Tyrod (and yes, there are other factors involved).

Have a good day!

https://t.co/GSkWc68jce

[B1GBLUE]

For some fans there is.

They will never draft a top QB if they keep playing Tyrod Taylor. Just kidding.

They will never pay Daniel Jones with that contract to sit. Unless there was more at stake instead of winning 6 games vs 2.

Seriously though, they have to play Jones in order to make decisions and that's with Barkley, Thomas, and JMS. Jones deserves at least that.

I think he plays this week and hopefully he had that epiphany.

i agree. people are acting like beating the redskins (who we own), and playing decent against a banged up and under achieving bills team, is the same as playing some of the elite teams in the league while our oline was playing the worst they have ever played and zero threat of a run game. Not sure if jones "deserves" it, but the money and investments they have made in him dictate that you HAVE to play him when healthy, with this "improved" version of the team we have been steadily seeing. If you continue to get subpar results, you go back to tyrod. its that simple.

[B1GBLUE]

One thing to keep in mind (I know this is obvious but it's worth saying out loud) is that they have to pay Jones the $40mm whether he plays or not. So that money is already spent. Right now at 2-5 they're desperate for wins. They don't have the luxury of making decisions based on what is optically convenient for them.

I do think they'll play Jones when he's healthy, but the leash won't be as long this time. If the offense looks like what it did before he got hurt, Taylor will be back in there, and he may be in there for a while. Simply put, the O line excuses won't hold nearly as much water this time around. Taylor has managed just fine behind this banged up line. The line is still clearly not good, but he has been more than functional out there as a 30-something journeyman backup making $5.5mm. So there really are no excuses for Jones to continue to be totally ineffective, which, save for two quarters in Arizona, he absolutely has been to this point.

Cant argue this at all. The only thing i'll say is the WHOLE team seems to be playing better and more motivated the last couple weeks. The WHOLE team was playing HORRIFIC when jones was in. I have a hard time believing thats ALL due to whos playing qb. I hope when he comes back we see more of the former. But if he continues to miss reads, roll out when he doesnt need to, throw inaccurate passes... its time to move on.

[B1GBLUE]

Add in better pass protection and the team finally using the WRs correctly and one is hard pressed to believe that there is even remotely a controversy.  Taylor did a good job job as a veteran backup, but his performance doesn't create a controversy

so do you disagree with this notion a lot of fans seems to have that the line is ONLY playing better BECAUSE of Tyrod?

[MightyGiants]

so do you disagree with this notion a lot of fans seems to have that the line is ONLY playing better BECAUSE of Tyrod?

There is a bit to unpack in the O-line.  The line has been more veteran in the last couple of games with the addition of Pugh.  As such, we are seeing less of the "whiffs" that totally disrupt plays.  We are also seeing the pressure being less multiple.   That is an underappreciated issue when it comes to pressure.  QBs can usually handle pressure from one player, but when multiple players are pressuring the QB is severely challenged.

All that said, the run-blocking from this line has been less than ideal.  I will also say that towards the end, DJ looked shell-shocked from dealing with so many whiffs and multiple pressure situations.

I will give TT credit in that he looked pretty relaxed out there rather than shell-shocked.  It is hard not to argue that a more relaxed QB is more effective than a shell-shocked one in a given situation.  So to some degree TT may have given the line a bit of a boost.

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/GiantInsider/status/1716438940507336725?s=20

[Dumpster Dan]

To respond to the Title of the thread


NO!!!!

Dumpster Dan

[Ed Vette]

A lot of good points here.

The Oline yesterday started out playing decently well in the first half, but Rivera made some adjustments and there was significantly more pressure in the second half. Pugh struggled for sure.

I think the reason Hyatt has gotten more snaps is because they know Taylor will look to him deep but also because he's running more routes and doing it well and has demonstrated hands and downfield blocking.

I wonder how Tyrod would have faired if he played as the starter all last season. I wonder if the scoring would have been higher. He should have started over Webb against the Eagles.

The loss of Thomas this season has been huge. It created all kinds of changes that mostly failed. Pugh was a good signing and although he hasn't been shut down well, he settled things down and provided much better overall protection.

I don't think Taylor would have saved Judge's job. That Oline mailed it in and the team quit on him.

I agree that Jones has a shorter leash and he's not going to be allowed to take Daboll and Schoen down.

If Thomas comes back this week I expect some rust. Him back with JMS will be a lift but that Jets Defense is very good. They will exploit any mistakes Jones makes and the Boo Birds will be unmerciful.

[kingm56]

I am curious what metric posters are you using to suggest the oline play has improved? According to the data, the pressure numbers have been identical.  In fact, against Buffalo, the Oline allowed the most pressures since week 1; yesterday, the Oline made Chase Young look like an AP, surrendering 4 sacks and 5 QB hits. Thier TT is also identical.  The data is quite clear, the Oline hasn't improved, what's improved is how the QB is responding to said pressure, which I humbly suggest creates a false reality that a line consisting of Pugh, McKethan, Phillips, Bredson and Glowinki is actually performing well.  The line didn't mysteriously get better during  their two best players (Thomas and JMS) absence...

[B1GBLUE]

I am curious what metric posters are you using to suggest the oline play has improved? According to the data, the pressure numbers have been identical.  In fact, against Buffalo, the Oline allowed the most pressures since week 1; yesterday, the Oline made Chase Young look like an AP, surrendering 4 sacks and 5 QB hits. Thier TT is also identical.  The data is quite clear, the Oline hasn't improved, what's improved is how the QB is responding to said pressure, which I humbly suggest creates a false reality that a line consisting of Pugh, McKethan, Phillips, Bredson and Glowinki is actually performing well.  The line didn't mysteriously get better during  their two best players (Thomas and JMS) absence...

I Know a lot of people dont believe in it, but their PFF grades last week against buffalo were WAY better than they have been. i havent seen the grades from yesterday yet. but for guys like mckethan and glowinski to go from literal 0 pass blocking grades to 50-70, thats a monumental improvement.

[kingm56]

I Know a lot of people dont believe in it, but their PFF grades last week against buffalo were WAY better than they have been. i havent seen the grades from yesterday yet. but for guys like mckethan and glowinski to go from literal 0 pass blocking grades to 50-70, thats a monumental improvement.

You're in favor of valuing subjective over objective data?  BTW, what does the former (i.e.) say about the QB play over the same period?  Are we comfortable suggesting the Oline is better without Taylor and JMS?  Is it possible the subjective data is manipulated by the QB play (i.e. the oline looks better as a result of improved QB play)?

[Messiah717]

The team was so dreadful and in the mud that any improvement is looked at as more than what it is.  The bar is dreadfully low.

[B1GBLUE]

You're in favor of valuing subjective over objective data?  BTW, what does the former (i.e.) say about the QB play over the same period?  Are we comfortable suggesting the Oline is better without Taylor and JMS?  Is it possible the subjective data is manipulated by the QB play (i.e. the oline looks better as a result of improved QB play)?

i personally think the entire team was playing like trash. and now the entire team is playing at least somewhat decent football. as the person above posted, we were playing SO poorly than any improvement looks like major improvement.

[aBladeOfBlue]

Based on the results on the field in 2023 by each QB, it doesn't seem like an outrageous question.

My take on this : Mental toughness.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Daniel Jones toolset. He's a fierce competitor but I think he lacks mental toughness to play the game through the rough and ugly games. I just can't imagine DJ pulling off a game like Eli did vs SF in the bloodbath playoff game. I think the coaches have to do something about it.

But, in Daniel Jones defense, had to play with multiple scores down. The defense was inexistant. Making the offense more unidimentional, not a great thing when you play with a pourous line.

The silver lining is, we have two potent QB's and our kids are getting more experience under their belt. Hyatt and Banks need to keep ramping up and things could get even better when our all-pro left tackle joins the party.

[Gman329]

Tyrod does one thing better than Jones: he cuts it loose.  Tyrod isn't nearly as fast as Jones - Jones would have taken some of those scrambles a longer way yesterday - and the accuracy is about the same.....but Tyrod is willing to take the shot upfield.  Maybe it's the security of being a backup veteran - Taylor has little/nothing to lose, while Jones worries that turnovers will cost him his job, so he plays it safe.  Maybe, just maybe, watching Tyrod operate will prove beneficial and we'll see DJ let it rip a little more when he returns. 
Hey, I can dream, can't I?