Did Daboll and company's injury designation of DJ cost them the season?

[nb587]

The narrative that seems to have been confirmed by the Giants is that DJ saw his spine specialist before the game and was cleared for contact.  The Giants couldn't activate him for the game because they designated him "out" Friday.   

Now I can understand the reluctance to play DJ on Sunday.  The Jets defense is fierce, and it was supposed to be rainy, and DJ hadn't practiced with the offense for three weeks (he was taking scout team snaps when he was cleared to practice with no contact).

Still, when Tyrod got hurt (which came as a surprise to no one), DJ, without practice with the offense, would have been a superior option to DeVito, whom the coaches didn't trust to pass the ball.   Had DJ come in for Taylor, the odds of winning the game would have been substantially higher.

I don't have a problem with not using Jones against the Jets pass rush adding on the weather issues.  My big problem is why do you have DeVito as your backup to an oft injured QB and they are afraid to let him throw the ball at all.  How is a QB on the field if there's no plan to throw?  Second, if they have the QB who they won't let throw, why not use the wildcat exclusively and at least get an extra blocker on there? 

My other point regarding this mess here is the roster construction from the start of the season.  You have an OL that at best would not be an asset even without injuries.  How do you keep just 1 TE who can block?  And, when they cut Cager who does not block, how do they not replace him with a TE who can help an inept OL with blocking?  For years, with a pathetic OL, they bring in TEs who cannot help protect the QB until Bellinger.  Do you think another TE who can block like him would have helped more than lots of guys on the roster?  And, when the OL gets decimated by injuries, isn't the need for blocking greater but they double down in the wrong direction.

[Hadron]

How do you explain a 9-7-1 and a 1-1 playoff record last year?

How many more coaches/coordinators need to be fired? Jones is a coach killer.

As for the record from last year: they played the AFC South and the NFC North. Both of those divisions were dumpster fires (outside of the Lions and Vikings).

When is Jones going to win division games (aside from Washington)?

[Ed Vette]

The narrative that seems to have been confirmed by the Giants is that DJ saw his spine specialist before the game and was cleared for contact.  The Giants couldn't activate him for the game because they designated him "out" Friday.   

Now I can understand the reluctance to play DJ on Sunday.  The Jets defense is fierce, and it was supposed to be rainy, and DJ hadn't practiced with the offense for three weeks (he was taking scout team snaps when he was cleared to practice with no contact).

Still, when Tyrod got hurt (which came as a surprise to no one), DJ, without practice with the offense, would have been a superior option to DeVito, whom the coaches didn't trust to pass the ball.   Had DJ come in for Taylor, the odds of winning the game would have been substantially higher.

This all boils down to the question, why the need to declare him out on Friday when they had the option to have him backup TT in case of injury if he was cleared for contact over the weekend?

I agree Rich, they either weren't thinking or one of the following reasons prevailed.

Afraid of reinjury
Afraid of criticism for not starting him.
Afraid he would play badly if they felt compelled to start him.
Interested in seeing how TT would do against a top five Defense.
Go with the hot hand.
All of the above.

[Bob In PA]

This all boils down to the question, why the need to declare him out on Friday when they had the option to have him backup TT in case of injury if he was cleared for contact over the weekend?

I agree Rich, they either weren't thinking or one of the following reasons prevailed.

Afraid of reinjury
Afraid of criticism for not starting him.
Afraid he would play badly if they felt compelled to start him.
Interested in seeing how TT would do against a top five Defense.
Go with the hot hand.
All of the above.

Ed: Is this explanation possible: By declaring him out Friday morning they were able to give his Friday practice reps to DeVito. Notwithstanding your list above, this is the only football reason I can think of. DJ was practicing (taking up reps) even though he was still barred from contact, so DeVito otherwise probably got few if any reps earlier in the week. Why should he (a rhetorical question). Bob

[Ed Vette]

Ed: Is this explanation possible: By declaring him out Friday morning they were able to give his Friday practice reps to DeVito. Notwithstanding your list above, this is the only football reason I can think of. DJ was practicing (taking up reps) even though he was still barred from contact, so DeVito otherwise probably got few if any reps earlier in the week. Why should he (a rhetorical question). Bob

So Tommy was the backup and didn't get any reps until Friday? Then that makes
sense.

[Bob In PA]

So Tommy was the backup and didn't get any reps until Friday? Then that makes
sense.

Ed: I don't think so. I'm suggesting Jones was hoped to be the backup until a decision was made Friday morning to list him as "out" so DeVito could then get all of Jones' reps on Friday.  On Saturday I'll bet Daboll was kicking himself, but remember... they won that game until he (and some players) threw it away. Bob

[Ed Vette]

Ed: I don't think so. I'm suggesting Jones was hoped to be the backup until a decision was made Friday morning to list him as "out" so DeVito could then get all of Jones' reps on Friday.  On Saturday I'll bet Daboll was kicking himself, but remember... they won that game until he (and some players) threw it away. Bob

Well, they actually didn't "throw it" away.

Bob, I think if he was cleared he would be starting. They would never have him as TT's backup. Practice or not.

[Bob In PA]

Well, they actually didn't "throw it" away.

Bob, I think if he was cleared he would be starting. They would never have him as TT's backup. Practice or not.

Ed: I thought about that aspect. Assuming my other thing was correct and they put Jones "out" in order to avoid snubbing him at practice Friday, maybe DeVito was so bad at Friday practice that they figured if they had to put him in they couldn't trust him with anything downfield, then, to make matters worse the weather erased any chance they might allow him to let it fly. Also, Saquon was winning the game so no reason to not continue that approach (until they choked at the end and trusted Gano instead)!!!  Bob

[B1GBLUE]

Admittedly sneaking into the playoffs seemed like the ceiling at this point.   I am somewhat torn as a fan.  On the one hand, if the Giants need to do some major restocking being out of it before Halloween may prove to be the best outcome.  On the other hand, I prefer and enjoy seasons where the Giants are playing meaningful games in December or, better yet, January.

Its a tough existence for us lol

[B1GBLUE]

How many more coaches/coordinators need to be fired? Jones is a coach killer.

As for the record from last year: they played the AFC South and the NFC North. Both of those divisions were dumpster fires (outside of the Lions and Vikings).

When is Jones going to win division games (aside from Washington)?

a coach killer? have ANY of his HC's or OC's gotten another job? had any success? i havent heard anything about pat shurmur. i havent heard anything about joe judge other than going to NE who is now terrible. those coaches did such a poor job coaching the talent around jones. very few qb's have any success in the same situation he has been in. he's not very good, but coach killer is a ridiculous thing to say.

[DaveBrown74]

a coach killer? have ANY of his HC's or OC's gotten another job? had any success?

Isn't that the exact point he's making?

[GMenRF]

The narrative that seems to have been confirmed by the Giants is that DJ saw his spine specialist before the game and was cleared for contact.  The Giants couldn't activate him for the game because they designated him "out" Friday.   

Now I can understand the reluctance to play DJ on Sunday.  The Jets defense is fierce, and it was supposed to be rainy, and DJ hadn't practiced with the offense for three weeks (he was taking scout team snaps when he was cleared to practice with no contact).

Still, when Tyrod got hurt (which came as a surprise to no one), DJ, without practice with the offense, would have been a superior option to DeVito, whom the coaches didn't trust to pass the ball.   Had DJ come in for Taylor, the odds of winning the game would have been substantially higher.

I'd save you the trouble.  The blunder of this staff was not going for it on 4th down.  You make it its game over.  You don't that's another 10 yards or so that the Jets had to drive to kick a game tying field goal.

Not to letting Gano play who apparently was injured and is now on IR.  For all the right calls this staff has done last year, they have undone this year on epic proportions.

Don't even get me started on the blunder before halftime on the Bills game greatly affected the outcome of that game.

[GMenRF]

Isn't that the exact point he's making?

I would argue that Shurmur was the one that really gotten the best of DJ in terms of production.  Multiple 4 touchdown games with no real receiving threat.  Shurmur didn't get to have another chance with Jones.

Shurmur was fired not becuase of Jones but how he lost the locker room.

This proves how inept really the owners and management.  If Shurmur had lost the locker room and was dead man walking why draft a QB that is tailor fit for a coach's scheme when your going to fire him.

[GMenRF]

a coach killer? have ANY of his HC's or OC's gotten another job? had any success? i havent heard anything about pat shurmur. i havent heard anything about joe judge other than going to NE who is now terrible. those coaches did such a poor job coaching the talent around jones. very few qb's have any success in the same situation he has been in. he's not very good, but coach killer is a ridiculous thing to say.

We can argue that was DJ really given a fair shot this year?  Before his injury, he was on pace to be sacked over 100 times this year.  For perspective that's on pace for 30+ more sacks than David Carr.  Yes they got him weapons but without any protection it was more of a disservice to DJ than really being beneficial.

At this point we really have no option but to look for another QB.  Even if DJ balls out the rest of the season, the physical beating he's had over the past 5 years and given with his neck injury, we need a his eventual replacement.

Hopefully a QB that will unite the whole fan base and not divide it like what happened to DJ.

[StompYouOT]

No, this team was not going to be good.  Jones playing means more losing which is better for our draft position.  We don't need to eek out meaningless wins that cost us a franchise chasing player.

I wish we traded Barkley honestly.  Let him play for a winner while he can still run and get some capital in return.