How do you feel about the Giants winning games for the rest of the season

[Philosophers]

I wanted to share something different and wanted to query your thoughts on possibly implementing this for the NFL.

The Australian Football League (AFL) will be carrying out its annual draft in a few weeks. Their league has a discretionary rule which allows the league's governing body to issue additional first round draft picks to teams who have performed the worst for multiple years in succession. In other words, if you end up at the bottom of the standings for two, maybe three years in a row, the league has the power to issue the struggling club additional picks in order to try and help them improve. Their logic being that they want all their teams to be competitive and, if a team is far behind its competition, it creates an imbalance based on scheduling. As it stands now, the league has 18 clubs who play 23 rounds (i.e. games) so there's an imbalance if one team plays the bottom-feeder twice in the season versus another team who might play them only once.

If the NFL had a team which was a perennial bottom-feeder, how would a similar rule to the AFL play out in the NFL by giving that team additional #1 draft picks. Would that create greater incentive to tank games? For the record, the AFL teams absolutely despise the rule and would rather let those teams suffer until their management properly learns how to build a team by selecting the right players and having the right coaches in place to develop them.

Thoughts?

Really interesting post to generate discussion.  I think that idea goes against the rugged individualist mindset that runs in this country and especially in the so-called manly sports that it is up to you to fix the problem without getting help from others. 

[B1GBLUE]

While tanking is the ideal outcome, i can never get on board with it. i dont wait all year to watch 17 weeks of ball for nothing. although it amounted to nothing, joe judges first season where we finished strong down the stretch was inspiring. we need to evaluate for next year. we also need to learn how to win. you cant do that intentionally losing every week.

[DaveBrown74]

I do think Giant Jim raised a good point the other day pertaining to this topic. It should matter, even if your team is out of it, how the players on the team (especially the younger players play). It's certainly in the long term interest of the team for your 25 and under guys to really show significant development over the course of the year. If they play like crap, yes, you'll lose more games and get a higher pick, but you're also not going to be feeling good about the future of the team when your young talent is that unimpressive. Conversely, if guys like Thibodeaux, Banks, Hawkins, Hyatt, McFadden, Flott, Neal etc all play significantly better in the second half than they did in the first half, you're going to win more games and have a lower pick, but does that not bode much better for your next five years than if all of the above stink it up for the last two months?

I think there are a lot of angles to this discussion and it's all rather nuanced. Clearly, a very straightforward approach, and the frankly natural one for a fan, is to simply always root for the team to win and to always root for your players to do well. I do think there is a lot to be said for wanting to see young guys on this team, who will be here for multiple years after this one, do very well. That's a no-brainer actually. With that said, I do think we need a new QB (I've been pretty open about this), and that's going to be much tougher to address if we're picking something like 12th than if we're picking something like 4th. So for 2023/2024 it's somewhat nuanced IMO.

[Giant Jim]

The draft only adds about 7 new players, how many on average play significant rolls for 5 years or more? They have well more than 7 already on their roster that need to play well and be a part of the future. The team has missed having a 3 game winning streak because of in game decisions and missed field goals. Thomas, Neal, Schitz, Jones and Barkley have all missed several games each. Pugh seems to be a nice fit, but he wasn't here to start the season. Tyre Phillips could a valuable asset. Waller's injury could be a blessing in disguise, now Bellinger will get better chances. Leo's departure should give Jordon Riley a chance to play and grow.

If you want them to lose to get better draft picks, then they need players like those to fail and that means total rebuild from the very bottom up.

If most of them do well and show they belong, then they can continue building and become competitive with the best teams in the league much sooner.

What's Schoen's record for drafting QB's? You think an early draft pick guarantees a great QB? How about a good one?

If you think wanting the Giants to lose will help them become a better team, lets all root for Philly and Dallas to win the super bowl so they get terrible draft picks.

[bamagiantfan]

The draft only adds about 7 new players, how many on average play significant rolls for 5 years or more? They have well more than 7 already on their roster that need to play well and be a part of the future. The team has missed having a 3 game winning streak because of in game decisions and missed field goals. Thomas, Neal, Schitz, Jones and Barkley have all missed several games each. Pugh seems to be a nice fit, but he wasn't here to start the season. Tyre Phillips could a valuable asset. Waller's injury could be a blessing in disguise, now Bellinger will get better chances. Leo's departure should give Jordon Riley a chance to play and grow.

If you want them to lose to get better draft picks, then they need players like those to fail and that means total rebuild from the very bottom up.

If most of them do well and show they belong, then they can continue building and become competitive with the best teams in the league much sooner.

What's Schoen's record for drafting QB's? You think an early draft pick guarantees a great QB? How about a good one?

If you think wanting the Giants to lose will help them become a better team, lets all root for Philly and Dallas to win the super bowl so they get terrible draft picks.

There is a common feeling that if you don't get one of the top 10 guys in the draft, then you have missed out on something. The Giants are not going to be better simply by drafting a few spots higher or lower to pick up one or two guys. In the last 10 drafts they had a top 10 pick 6 times. The issue with the Giants through all the front office and coaching changes has not been with those high draft choices. The issues have been with every player drafted from round 3 to the end of the draft.

So, I don't buy into the tanking to get a shot at one or two guys at the top of the draft. What the Giants NEED to do is find more Micah McFaddens and Julian Loves in the draft. There have been entirely too few contributors coming from Day 3 selections and the depth on this team and the number of free agents they had to bring in to start or backup at key positions (Waller, Hodgins, Brieda, Campbell, Okereke, Jackson, Simmons, Pugh, Bredesen, Glowinski, and until last week, Williams) is a reflection of that. 

That's why I don't care where we draft. I'd rather take a can't miss punter in Round 4 than a great prospect with a high upside that hasn't been particularly productive due to injuries. Round 1 is for guys you think will be Pro-Bowl caliber players. The position they play shouldn't matter unless you already expect to have a Pro-Bowl player in that position next year. Position targeted players should be in Rounds 2 and later.

[Bob In PA]

There is a common feeling that if you don't get one of the top 10 guys in the draft, then you have missed out on something. The Giants are not going to be better simply by drafting a few spots higher or lower to pick up one or two guys. In the last 10 drafts they had a top 10 pick 6 times. The issue with the Giants through all the front office and coaching changes has not been with those high draft choices. The issues have been with every player drafted from round 3 to the end of the draft.

So, I don't buy into the tanking to get a shot at one or two guys at the top of the draft. What the Giants NEED to do is find more Micah McFaddens and Julian Loves in the draft. There have been entirely too few contributors coming from Day 3 selections and the depth on this team and the number of free agents they had to bring in to start or backup at key positions (Waller, Hodgins, Brieda, Campbell, Okereke, Jackson, Simmons, Pugh, Bredesen, Glowinski, and until last week, Williams) is a reflection of that. 

bama: As usual, it's solid reasoning.  However, there ARE occasionally generational players who (by themselves) change the dynamic of an entire team. So there is that rare event to account for.

[Giant Jim]

There is a common feeling that if you don't get one of the top 10 guys in the draft, then you have missed out on something. The Giants are not going to be better simply by drafting a few spots higher or lower to pick up one or two guys. In the last 10 drafts they had a top 10 pick 6 times. The issue with the Giants through all the front office and coaching changes has not been with those high draft choices. The issues have been with every player drafted from round 3 to the end of the draft.

So, I don't buy into the tanking to get a shot at one or two guys at the top of the draft. What the Giants NEED to do is find more Micah McFaddens and Julian Loves in the draft. There have been entirely too few contributors coming from Day 3 selections and the depth on this team and the number of free agents they had to bring in to start or backup at key positions (Waller, Hodgins, Brieda, Campbell, Okereke, Jackson, Simmons, Pugh, Bredesen, Glowinski, and until last week, Williams) is a reflection of that. 

In today's game, they're always going to have to bring in players like Pugh and Hodgins. The thing is, they should be brought in as back ups to the back ups, not starting almost immediately. But they don't cost much. A draft pick for a player like Waller could be OK, but team control on his contract is less time than a draft pick. You are spot on about players like Jackson, Glowinski and Okereke. Free agents like them eat up the cap and prevent the team from extending contracts for players like Love. Extended contracts pay players less than if the become completely free which benefits the team long range and adds security for the player before they would reach total free agency. 

The way they locked up Thomas was perfect. Their handling of Jones and Barkley was bungled, but that's more because of new management not knowing the players and recovery from earlier injuries.

[katkavage]

I think the issue that makes this post interesting is the conflict here. We really all do want the Giants to win, but because one of their major needs; in fact the most important need for the future of the organization is finding an elite QB. Winning down the stretch this year makes filling that need harder. If they had a young potentially elite QB but needed other parts where they draft wouldn't be as critical.

[Just_jimmy]

I want a QB that can lift the franchise out the bottom of the league. Until we get that we're going no where.

That isn't DJ. So let's just get it over with and get into a position to get someone who MIGHT BE.

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[uconnjack8]

If the Giants trend healthier in the 2nd half it won't shock me if they end up 8-9. 

[Philosophers]

Kat and I can debate this point, but the reality is that I think the Giants will be lucky if they win 4 games this season.  While certain parts of the team may elevate, I don't see the OL and QB playing at a high enough level for say a run of wins and an 8 win season to occur.  No way.  We are headed to a top 5 pick.

[Jaime]

Phil, spot on

[bobalobabingbong]

Like a couple others have said, most of the time I want them to win.  Sometimes I think it would be nice to get a high draft pick though.  In the end when the game starts I'm 100% rooting for that W.

[DaveBrown74]

Kat and I can debate this point, but the reality is that I think the Giants will be lucky if they win 4 games this season.  While certain parts of the team may elevate, I don't see the OL and QB playing at a high enough level for say a run of wins and an 8 win season to occur.  No way.  We are headed to a top 5 pick.

I think this is probably true, but we were within a whisker of beating the Bills and Jets with Thomas, Schmitz, and Jones missing. I have to think that means we have a realistic chance of beating the Raiders, Commanders (whom we've already beaten), Packers, Pats, Saints, and Rams.

In no way am I suggesting we win all of those games, but it won't surprise me if we win three or four of them. And I wouldn't be completely shocked if we win five.

[uconnjack8]

I think this is probably true, but we were within a whisker of beating the Bills and Jets with Thomas, Schmitz, and Jones missing. I have to think that means we have a realistic chance of beating the Raiders, Commanders (whom we've already beaten), Packers, Pats, Saints, and Rams.

In no way am I suggesting we win all of those games, but it won't surprise me if we win three or four of them. And I wouldn't be completely shocked if we win five.

That's pretty much what I was thinking with my earlier post.  I also figure there is a game no one thinks the Giants have a chance of winning that they will pull put somehow, be it they play their best game or the other team has significant injuries. 

That all being said, I am not predicting all of that,  just don't see it as far-fetched.