Farewell DJ

[AZGiantFan]

BTW, it's a neat trick to heap tons of praise on DJ for last season, while completely absolving him of 4 seasons of terrible play...

It would have been a neat trick, except for one thing.  I never did that.  I always maintained that last year's success was a mirage.  You have me confused with someone else.

[uconnjack8]

Ownership's biggest fault is deluding themselves, beat writers, and the fan base into believing a mediocre talent is actually a franchise QB. It's the same playbook countless organizations have followed only to end up in QB hell.

Back to the thread topic, is this actually farewell for DJ? He has a guaranteed salary next season of $35.5 million. I would think that means he has to at least go through the motions of rehabbing with the Giants in hopes of resuming his career as a "franchise" QB. A lot depends obviously on the draft but also on the timeline for DJ's recovery.

I was thinking that he is likely the starter week 1 next year.   10 months may be enough time for home to recover enough to start.  I think  even if they draft a QB, and Jones is healthy enough, he is the likely starter. 

[Philosophers]

Injuries aside, this was always the most likely conclusion to the DJ saga; thankfully, management understood DJ's trajectory and structured the contract to replace him as soon as next year's draft.  In the modern NFL, it's difficult to be truly competitive with a QB who's incapable of throwing for more than 3500 yards in a 17 game season.  If the Giants are in position to actually draft his replacement, we should all rejoice, as it gives us a chance to be competitive again, or at least not the boring/unwatchable offense we've been under DJ's tenure.  Consider Houston, they were the NFLs worst team in 2022 at 3-13-1; drafting the right QB has propelled them to a 4-4 record, second place in their conference.  They're averaging 24 PPG, compared to the 17 PPG last season.  That's what a rookie QB can do for a team!  Imagine if we had these numbers from a QB:

4824 Yards 30 TDs 2 Int

That's CJ current 17-game projection; remember, he has limited offensive weapons and he's still thriving.  Obviously, not every team gets to draft a CJ; however, we should be excited about the prospect of drafting a QB capable of fundamentally altering our teams trajectory.  At the very least, we may draft someone exciting to watch...

Reading a stat line from one year to the next then laying all the success or failure or to one player is misleading at best.  CJ has helped for sure but other reasons as well which you don't know.

[AZGiantFan]

I was thinking that he is likely the starter week 1 next year.   10 months may be enough time for home to recover enough to start.  I think  even if they draft a QB, and Jones is healthy enough, he is the likely starter. 

He has to be because he has a $47 million CAP hit.  If they have committed this much of their team-building resources to him they simply cannot afford to squander their draft capital on a QB for a year or two.  The Giants should be the ones auctioning off a high draft pick for a bunch of picks, including a 2025 first rounder, so they can continue building out this team and preparing to draft a QB in 2025.

[SlotCorner]

I was an early DJ critic, but he showed me something last year. I really bought into the idea that the systems around him were the issue, not necessarily his talent. He didn't throw a ton of touchdowns last year, but making that offense competent with the weapons he had (and a less than competent defense) was an accomplishment. I thought the arrow was pointing up.

In the games he played he was really bad, in ways that Tyrod Taylor seemed not to be. And now whether Jones is any good is now moot because the Giants will probably be bad enough to get out of "quarterback hell" and draft his replacement.

It just seems like a massive waste of time. I still like Schoen and I think we can win with Daboll, but I also think it is ok in retrospect to say the massive contract for Jones was a mistake, whatever the escape hatch. This of course assumes Schoen thought he had any better options in last year's draft, but we are -- once again -- at least two years from contending.

[EDjohnst1981]

I don't think it's farewell, maybe to his days as a starter for the Giants but he will be on the 53 next year.

[kingm56]

Reading a stat line from one year to the next then laying all the success or failure or to one player is misleading at best.  CJ has helped for sure but other reasons as well which you don't know.

Have you watched a single Houston game this season?  A rookie QB, on pace to throw for 5K yards, 30 TDs and 2 Ints and you don't believe that's the primary reason for the dramatic turnaround? No other position/coach can have this impact on a team. It's unique to the QB and why they consume nearly 10% of a team's aggregate salary.

[DaveBrown74]

I don't think it's farewell, maybe to his days as a starter for the Giants but he will be on the 53 next year.

Agreed, although unclear if he will right away. In fact I doubt it. I think he'll be on the PUP/IR intially.

The odds of him being the week one starter for the Giants are less than 10% IMO. Probably low single digits percent. Even if he is in the upper echelon in recovery time for this injury, I just doubt that they'll try to rush him back. They're likely going to be picking in the top 5, and it will likely be a QB. If they don't want to play that QB in week one, I doubt Jones will be the QB who does play. Maybe they'll keep Taylor for that purpose.

The reality (which I realize nobody wants to say today out of sympathy for his injury situation) is he has kind of proven beyond reasonable doubt at this point that he simply isn't a very good NFL QB. The sample size is very large. I have virtually no doubt that Schoen and Daboll can see this now, if they couldn't already. And even Mara must have taken notice of Taylor's relatively better performance against tough defenses under exactly the same circumstances Jones had (worse if you count the Ezeudu loss). So while the organization may be stuck with him for another year, I highly doubt rushing him back onto the field, either in week one or frankly at all (if they like whoever the new QB is), is going to be any sort of priority.

Assuming Jones wants to continue to play in the NFL, I think his future will be as a much more moderately priced backup/spot starter type.

[Jclayton92]

Ownership's biggest fault is deluding themselves, beat writers, and the fan base into believing a mediocre talent is actually a franchise QB. It's the same playbook countless organizations have followed only to end up in QB hell.

Back to the thread topic, is this actually farewell for DJ? He has a guaranteed salary next season of $35.5 million. I would think that means he has to at least go through the motions of rehabbing with the Giants in hopes of resuming his career as a "franchise" QB. A lot depends obviously on the draft but also on the timeline for DJ's recovery.

I am completely fine with him being this Franchises Backup Qb but nothing beyond that.

[H-Town G-Fan]

Agreed, although unclear if he will right away. In fact I doubt it. I think he'll be on the PUP/IR intially.

The odds of him being the week one starter for the Giants are less than 10% IMO. Probably low single digits percent. Even if he is in the upper echelon in recovery time for this injury, I just doubt that they'll try to rush him back. They're likely going to be picking in the top 5, and it will likely be a QB. If they don't want to play that QB in week one, I doubt Jones will be the QB who does play. Maybe they'll keep Taylor for that purpose.

The reality (which I realize nobody wants to say today out of sympathy for his injury situation) is he has kind of proven beyond reasonable doubt at this point that he simply isn't a very good NFL QB. The sample size is very large. I have virtually no doubt that Schoen and Daboll can see this now, if they couldn't already. And even Mara must have taken notice of Taylor's relatively better performance against tough defenses under exactly the same circumstances Jones had (worse if you count the Ezeudu loss). So while the organization may be stuck with him for another year, I highly doubt rushing him back onto the field, either in week one or frankly at all (if they like whoever the new QB is), is going to be any sort of priority.

Assuming Jones wants to continue to play in the NFL, I think his future will be as a much more moderately priced backup/spot starter type.

Not that it matters, but I doubt Mara will admit Jones is not a good QB. He will continue to make excuses for his golden child. However, ultimately, Schoen will be able to press to Mara a non-talent related basis for moving on (i.e. Jones's considerable injury history). That will be inarguable and satisfy Mara's need to think he made the correct read on Jones's talent ("He could've been great if it weren't for these darned injuries!") while giving Schoen and company the clear to move on and start life post DJ.

[Jclayton92]

I was an early DJ critic, but he showed me something last year. I really bought into the idea that the systems around him were the issue, not necessarily his talent. He didn't throw a ton of touchdowns last year, but making that offense competent with the weapons he had (and a less than competent defense) was an accomplishment. I thought the arrow was pointing up.

In the games he played he was really bad, in ways that Tyrod Taylor seemed not to be. And now whether Jones is any good is now moot because the Giants will probably be bad enough to get out of "quarterback hell" and draft his replacement.

It just seems like a massive waste of time. I still like Schoen and I think we can win with Daboll, but I also think it is ok in retrospect to say the massive contract for Jones was a mistake, whatever the escape hatch. This of course assumes Schoen thought he had any better options in last year's draft, but we are -- once again -- at least two years from contending.

I don't blame schoen for the contract as I always saw it as a 2/3 yr deal because there weren't any better options at the time.

[H-Town G-Fan]

I don't blame schoen for the contract as I always saw it as a 2/3 yr deal because there weren't any better options at the time.

I agree. Cap hit for cut after the second year is rough but palatable, especially when you consider that if Jones is cut they're hitting reset that season and aren't likely to contend. I think Schoen was in a tough spot between Mara, a decent season from Jones, a playoff victory, and out of the top of the draft. He's going to get a chance to choose his QB and it will do more to define his tenure than any decision made to date.

[DaveBrown74]

Not that it matters, but I doubt Mara will admit Jones is not a good QB. He will continue to make excuses for his golden child. However, ultimately, Schoen will be able to press to Mara a non-talent related basis for moving on (i.e. Jones's considerable injury history). That will be inarguable and satisfy Mara's need to think he made the correct read on Jones's talent ("He could've been great if it weren't for these darned injuries!") while giving Schoen and company the clear to move on and start life post DJ.

Yup, no doubt in my mind this is true. Mara can take solace in knowing he gave Jones a contract he never deserved, that no other team would have given him (even though Jones wanted more than that). Hopefully that's enough to assuage any guilt he may have about supposedly killing his career. Either way I agree - Schoen will have no problem convincing Mara they need to move on. I'm sure Tisch won't disagree either.

[T200]

Not that it matters, but I doubt Mara will admit Jones is not a good QB. He will continue to make excuses for his golden child. However, ultimately, Schoen will be able to press to Mara a non-talent related basis for moving on (i.e. Jones's considerable injury history). That will be inarguable and satisfy Mara's need to think he made the correct read on Jones's talent ("He could've been great if it weren't for these darned injuries!") while giving Schoen and company the clear to move on and start life post DJ.

I didn't watch the game but was listening to it on SXM on the way home. I had a HUGE problem with the Tush Push call!!! Why would they voluntarily and deliberately force him into a pile of people with his neck issues???

Then, Rich started the thread about why Jones was in there even after an apparent leg/knee injury.

It got me to thinking... and I'm no conspiracy theorist. The other downside to this thought is that it puts Schoen/Daboll in a very bad light. My thought is that Jones would always get a favorable nod from Mara, essentially tying Schoen's/Daboll's hands. How are they going to rid themselves of a very pedestrian QB who is clearly not the answer???

Well, they certainly can't bench him due to stinking up the joint. Too many offensive line woes to put the blame squarely on his shoulders. The only way he wouldn't be able to play is if he is hurt. Now, I'm not suggesting that Neal and Peart are part of some insidious plan to get Jones hurt. However, in light of how they handled him this past game makes me wonder. 

[Bob In PA]

I didn't watch the game but was listening to it on SXM on the way home. I had a HUGE problem with the Tush Push call!!! Why would they voluntarily and deliberately force him into a pile of people with his neck issues???

Then, Rich started the thread about why Jones was in there even after an apparent leg/knee injury.

It got me to thinking... and I'm no conspiracy theorist. The other downside to this thought is that it puts Schoen/Daboll in a very bad light. My thought is that Jones would always get a favorable nod from Mara, essentially tying Schoen's/Daboll's hands. How are they going to rid themselves of a very pedestrian QB who is clearly not the answer???

Well, they certainly can't bench him due to stinking up the joint. Too many offensive line woes to put the blame squarely on his shoulders. The only way he wouldn't be able to play is if he is hurt. Now, I'm not suggesting that Neal and Peart are part of some insidious plan to get Jones hurt. However, in light of how they handled him this past game makes me wonder. 

Tim: The thought crossed my mind, but it would be IMO out-of-character all around.

But take the same facts with a different "spin" on them and, to me, at least, it does make sense....

.... suppose the attitude is... "Mara is the owner so we get Jones out there as much as possible, just like Barkley, both of whom we're paying Pro Bowl money for.... and let them sink or swim.  Either way, the team gets it's "money's-worth" (max service for max pay).  IMO there's nothing "wrong" or "sour" about that attitude.

Bob