Interesting comment by Jordon Raanan

[Doc16LT56]

That ranking is deceptive for a few reasons:

1st and most importantly, this team is inept on special teams as well as on offense. Which means that the defense has often dealt with short fields as well as fatigue from all of the three and outs.
Sooner or later you're going to burn out as a defender playing under those circumstances. Credit to Wink and the defense for continuing to fight.

2nd like the offense, they have had to fight through injuries as well as developing young talent. I don't think it's a stretch to say that he's handled it better than the offense and special teams.


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They're giving up 4.9 yards per carry on the road. How can that possibly be justified or excused? This defense is a problem.

[andrew_nyGiants]

They're giving up 4.9 yards per carry on the road. How can that possibly be justified or excused? This defense is a problem.

In a vacuum that appears to be a defensive weakness. But the overall performance of this defense given the obstacles that they're dealing with has been solid.

4.9 avg is similar to a RB who averages 3 YPC in the 1st 3 QTRS and in the 4th rips off a couple of runs for 40 yards and suddenly their overall average is 5 YPC for the game.

You put an offense together that can sustain drives and average 20 points per better per game and I promise you, the same defense presently on the field will be statistically far superior than what the books show now.


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[Doc16LT56]

In a vacuum that appears to be a defensive weakness. But the overall performance of this defense given the obstacles that they're dealing with has been solid.

4.9 avg is similar to a RB who averages 3 YPC in the 1st 3 QTRS and in the 4th rips off a couple of runs for 40 yards and suddenly their overall average is 5 YPC for the game.

You put an offense together that can sustain drives and average 20 points per better per game and I promise you, the same defense presently on the field will be statistically far superior than what the books show now.


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It's not just a weakness, it's a fatal flaw. You can't win with a defense that consistently allows the average RB to perform like an elite RB.

I'm not a fan of the magical thinking around here over the last decade that things will somehow get better if we believe hard enough. They need to address the front seven beyond Dex and Ekereke.

[DaveBrown74]

But the overall performance of this defense given the obstacles that they're dealing with has been solid.

As a team they are near rock bottom in the league in both points allowed per game and total yards allowed per game.

What about that is "solid" from an "overall performance" perspective?

[Stringer Bell]

As a team they are near rock bottom in the league in both points allowed per game and total yards allowed per game.

What about that is "solid" from an "overall performance" perspective?

When measuring the performance of the team's units for the purposes of determining draft / offseason focus, i care less about how the units rank against the entire league vs. how the units stack up against each other within the context of this team only.

From that perspective, the defense is light years ahead of the offense. Assuming Barkley leaves, the offense needs to upgrade half or more of the starting spots. Whereas the defense only needs to fill 2-3 holes.

[Doc16LT56]

When measuring the performance of the team's units for the purposes of determining draft / offseason focus, i care less about how the units rank against the entire league vs. how the units stack up against each other within the context of this team only.

From that perspective, the defense is light years ahead of the offense. Assuming Barkley leaves, the offense needs to upgrade half or more of the starting spots. Whereas the defense only needs to fill 2-3 holes.

This is fair. Offense is definitely the priority.

[andrew_nyGiants]

It's not just a weakness, it's a fatal flaw. You can't win with a defense that consistently allows the average RB to perform like an elite RB.

I'm not a fan of the magical thinking around here over the last decade that things will somehow get better if we believe hard enough. They need to address the front seven beyond Dex and Ekereke.

I never claimed the defense was a finished product, truth be told they need some upgrades for sure.

I'm talking about complimentary football and when 2 of the 3 units are CONSISTENTLY UNDERPERFORMING it's going to have a negative impact on the performance of the 3rd...in this case the defense.

So yes, the defense can use some reinforcement...but not just the roster on their side of the ball, but the ability to trust that offense and specials don't consistently hang them out to dry.


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[y_so_blu]

When measuring the performance of the team's units for the purposes of determining draft / offseason focus, i care less about how the units rank against the entire league vs. how the units stack up against each other within the context of this team only.

From that perspective, the defense is light years ahead of the offense. Assuming Barkley leaves, the offense needs to upgrade half or more of the starting spots. Whereas the defense only needs to fill 2-3 holes.

This is accurate. Both the offense and defense are statistically poor, but if you've watched the games, it was the defense that kept us in most of them. I think their difficulties stemmed from the offense not sustaining drives.

So I agree this draft should be more about the offense. QB, receiver, line, and a good running back if Saquon leaves. I do want a good linebacker though. Right now we have Okereke and a bunch of guys behind him who, on their best day, are just all right.

[andrew_nyGiants]

As a team they are near rock bottom in the league in both points allowed per game and total yards allowed per game.

What about that is "solid" from an "overall performance" perspective?

Do you believe that if the offense was average or above average in scoring and TOP that the defense would statistically be ranked near the bottom of the league?

The defense is solid...not great, not a finished product...but solid given a poor offense and poor special teams. This is about complimentary football.


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[AZGiantFan]

FWIW, the Giants are 23rd in time of possession.  The Giants are also tied for 5th in fewest giveaways.  So it is not like the defense is being kneecapped by the offense giving away the ball.

[nb587]

Is there a statistic about the frequency of 3 and outs or other short drives?  I dont know but I suspect the Giants would be nearer to the top of the league. Other than a few games against top notch offenses, I often thought the defense ran out of gas against average offenses because they were on the field too long.  Just a theory

[Trench]

FWIW, the Giants are 23rd in time of possession.  The Giants are also tied for 5th in fewest giveaways.  So it is not like the defense is being kneecapped by the offense giving away the ball.

I can't prove it but it seemed like a trend this year in some Giants games the team who controlled time of possession wound up losing a bunch of times.

[DaveBrown74]

Do you believe that if the offense was average or above average in scoring and TOP that the defense would statistically be ranked near the bottom of the league?

That precisely defines this year's Eagles team, so to say it's the offense's fault the defense is so bad is not an automatically valid excuse to me.

[Doc16LT56]

That precisely defines this year's Eagles team, so to say it's the offense's fault the defense is so bad is not an automatically valid excuse to me.

Right. Another way to look at it, who are the worst offenses this season? Giants, Jets, Patriots, and Panthers.

Defensive rankings:
Panthers 3rd
Jets 5th
Patriots 6th
Giants 28th

So why are the other 3 terrible offenses going to finish in the top 10 for defense but the Giants are going to finish in the bottom 5?

[DaveBrown74]

Right. Another way to look at it, who are the worst offenses this season? Giants, Jets, Patriots, and Panthers.

Defensive rankings:
Panthers 3rd
Jets 5th
Patriots 6th
Giants 28th

So why are the other 3 terrible offenses going to finish in the top 10 for defense but the Giants are going to finish in the bottom 5?

Right. Another way to look at it, who are the worst offenses this season? Giants, Jets, Patriots, and Panthers.

Defensive rankings:
Panthers 3rd
Jets 5th
Patriots 6th
Giants 28th

So why are the other 3 terrible offenses going to finish in the top 10 for defense but the Giants are going to finish in the bottom 5?

Agreed. Because the argument that when your offense is bad it gives your bad defense a pass is not wholly true.

I get the arguments as to why it might be true. If your offense is inept, they will routinely put a gassed D on the field, often with short fields. Makes sense.

On the other hand, if your offense stinks, the opponent's offense will often take their foot off the gas, run the ball more, let the play clock run down, and just try to manage the game at that point. So it cuts both ways.

The bottom line is that the data you provided shows that it's false to say or suggest that a team with a bad offense is automatically going to have a defense whose numbers paint a worse picture than they really are. That is clearly not the case with a lot of these teams, if not most.