Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Trench on Today at 04:09:47 PMWell it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth

I apologize for overestimating your perceptiveness.  I'll go sit in the corner.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on Today at 01:44:35 PMGeez, it's called hyperbole.

Well it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 01:55:04 PMAnd the beat goes on...

True, there seem to be some fans who think a QB can be in the top 10 playing behind the worst line in the league.  I seriously doubt the NFL coaches and GMs believe that or they wouldn't be spending so much high draft capital and money on offensive linemen if their play didn't have a major impact (or as Jone's critics love to say "make excuses") on a quarterback's play.

That really seems to be the Daniel Jones divide in a nutshell. There are those who believe a quarterback needs at least a mediocre offensive line to function properly (or at least partially offset by the elite receiver(s)), and there seem to be fans who think any consideration of a quarterback's protection is "just making excuses."  Plus I some critics suggest that if Jones can't function behind horrible lines than he needs an elite line or, I have also heard, "he needs to have everything perfect".

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 01:34:21 PMI hear you, Tim, but the data simply doesn't support your sentiments; 6 of the top 10 most valuable franchise have stunk for 3 or more years...5 of the 6 have stunk for more than a decade; The Bill, Lions and Bengals are #30, 31 and 32. It's fairly clear winning has absolutely nothing to do with profitability. Concerning the PSL, the Giants could care less who buys thier tickets.  The NFL ticket exchange ensures they get a cut of ticket sales from all third party vendors. So, while some fans elected to forgo thier PSL(s), other fans have stepped in to purchase them, if solely for the purpose of reselling thier tickets via said exchange to make a profit.   

More to the point, the Giants marketing department does not care about throwing players a bone or winning games; their job is to sell tickets.  It really is that simple, my friend. I believe some fans conflate the entertainment side of the business with football operations; they're two separate things...

#2 Pats
#4 Giants
#5 Bears
#6 Raiders
#7 Jets
#8 Commanders

As somebody who has to sell most of his tickets every season because he just can't get to many games anymore...making a profit isn't generally in the cards.  At least not recently.  Now if the Giants pull themselves out of the dumpster and start becoming relevant that might be a different story.

In a related story...if you want tickets to a game this year let me know!   

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult.  I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality 

That article is about EPA, I found another EPA stat the other day that was interesting if not alarming.

1st round QBs to post negative EPA/att in EACH of their first 3 years in the NFL:

Joey Harrington (2002-04)
Kyle Boller (2003-05)
Sam Darnold (2018-20)
Daniel Jones (2019-21)
Zach Wilson (2021-23)
Justin Fields (2021-23)

(since 2000, min 200 att/yr)

Per Warren Sharp

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult.  I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality 

You, me, and a few others have been making this point for years now. It just seems to be too complicated a point for some to wrap their heads around. So we end up seeing all those elementary school level posts as if there are no inputs (other than coaching) to an offensive line's performance.

It's a real chicken or the egg conundrum.  I think it's the QB.  For all the buffoonery of Gettleman...and lord knows there was a lot of THAT out of him during his despicable tenure... if he stumbles accidentally into Jones being any good he probably still has his job right now.  And we all know that guy is horrible at this job.

So to me you can have a bad GM and think he's good provided the QB he gets masks the stench.  You can't really mask a bad QB with a good GM.  No matter the pieces you surround him with, if he's bad he's gonna be bad.  And he's going to take the team with him.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 02:37:14 PMWhen does it end?  I stopped watching many years ago; the initial seasons were raw and allowed you to witness the sausage making.  Unfortunately, it's now a massive scripted production...IMO, it lost its initial charm; still, I'll watch this season because it's our Giants.

I assume it ends in June.

Turkey Day Again !

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 02:35:34 PM....