https://x.com/nflrums/status/1764056591286845791?s=20
Not understanding. Does this mean they don't think JJ will be there with the6th pick ? Or am I misunderstanding?
Quote from: nb587 on March 03, 2024, 08:57:18 AMNot understanding. Does this mean they don't think JJ will be there with the6th pick ? Or am I misunderstanding?
I interpret to mean they were trying for the top 3 and also checking out McCarthy as another possibility
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 09:01:42 AMI interpret to mean they were trying for the top 3 and also checking out McCarthy as another possibility
Or it could mean they are certain of the top 4 and are worried a team will jump them to select McCarthy at #5. Would be kind of funny to see Harbaugh trade his pick so a team could draft his former QB.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 07:59:59 AMhttps://x.com/nflrums/status/1764056591286845791?s=20
Lol, you're certainly committed to JJ. He had a good showing and he's a good looking kid with a great smile and publicly interviews well. He's Irish and I'm sure Mara noticed. I think Drake Maye hurt himself by not competing at the Combine and JJ may have leap frogged him after this past week. Eleven teams spoke to McCarthy. I can see the Giants moving up to take him. I can see Harbaugh and the Chargers trading down. No doubt they will be taking a hard look at the Tackles today.
Harbaugh said he is in "awe" of Justin Herbert. He said he needs to get him a running game to make him and the Chargers' offense better. At 5, Harbaugh is taking an OL probably or a WR. He's in the perfect spot to trade for someone who wants to trade up. I am sure teams behind the Giants who want a QB are afraid the Giants will draft one so they need to leapfrog the Giants. Knowing that, Schoen thinks he needs to move up.
The big question in my mind would be if Schoen is targeting one QB in particular or a few QBs. If it's the former, he really has less flexibility so may want to trade further up.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 03, 2024, 09:16:35 AMLol, you're certainly committed to JJ. He had a good showing and he's a good looking kid with a great smile and publicly interviews well. He's Irish and I'm sure Mara noticed. I think Drake Maye hurt himself by not competing at the Combine and JJ may have leap frogged him after this past week. Eleven teams spoke to McCarthy. I can see the Giants moving up to take him. I can see Harbaugh and the Chargers trading down. No doubt they will be taking a hard look at the Tackles today.
Ed,
It's not my fault that I was right about JJ ;) I told you that once the NFL people were heard from (as opposed to purely the draftniks), the talk about McCarthy on day two would become a distant memory and that the Giants drafting him at 6 (or higher) would enter the conversation.
If the Giants have to waste draft capital to trade with the Chargers hopefully people would understand why I was so pissed off with that meaningless win over the Eagles to end the season. Had the Giants lost that game, they wouldn't have to be wasting valuable draft picks to move up.
The NFL YouTube channel has all the Combine throwing sessions. I watched McCarthy, Nix, and Pennix. As they say throwing at the Combine is challenging but I think McCarthy had the best session of the three.
I think McCarthy weighing in at 219 and still being able to run the short shuttle and 3 cone was a bit "win" for McCarthy as one of the knocks was that he was too light at 205 (what he was listed at Michigan). I also thought his two drills suggest a 40 time in the low 4.5s.
As for drafting an OT at 6. The Giants need something to get the fanbase excited. Drafting yet another top 10 OT isn't going to do it. I have to think the Giants go WR or QB with their first pick.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 03, 2024, 09:27:32 AMHarbaugh said he is in "awe" of Justin Herbert. He said he needs to get him a running game to make him and the Chargers' offense better. At 5, Harbaugh is taking an OL probably or a WR. He's in the perfect spot to trade for someone who wants to trade up. I am sure teams behind the Giants who want a QB are afraid the Giants will draft one so they need to leapfrog the Giants. Knowing that, Schoen thinks he needs to move up.
The big question in my mind would be if Schoen is targeting one QB in particular or a few QBs. If it's the former, he really has less flexibility so may want to trade further up.
A couple of weeks ago I thought how it might work out to trade up with Chicago and then trade down with a New England and control the situation. After yesterday however, I can see Four QB's taken before the Giants pick at six. I can also see Nix and Penix moving up to the top of the mid first round.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 09:32:48 AMEd,
It's not my fault that I was right about JJ ;) I told you that once the NFL people were heard from (as opposed to purely the draftniks), the talk about McCarthy on day two would become a distant memory and that the Giants drafting him at 6 (or higher) would enter the conversation.
If the Giants have to waste draft capital to trade with the Chargers hopefully people would understand why I was so pissed off with that meaningless win over the Eagles to end the season. Had the Giants lost that game, they wouldn't have to be wasting valuable draft picks to move up.
The NFL YouTube channel has all the Combine throwing sessions. I watched McCarthy, Nix, and Pennix. As they say throwing at the Combine is challenging but I think McCarthy had the best session of the three.
I think McCarthy weighing in at 219 and still being able to run the short shuttle and 3 cone was a bit "win" for McCarthy as one of the knocks was that he was too light at 205 (what he was listed at Michigan). I also thought his two drills suggest a 40 time in the low 4.5s.
As for drafting an OT at 6. The Giants need something to get the fanbase excited. Drafting yet another top 10 OT isn't going to do it. I have to think the Giants go WR or QB with their first pick.
I was referring to the Chargers taking a hard look at the Tackles today.
Penix had the best day throwing IMO.
I said repeatedly that I needed more to evaluate McCarthy and I like him but I also don't see him as a day one starter. That's why I said he would be a good fit for the Giants who are hard committed to DJ starting in 2024.
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 03, 2024, 09:41:08 AMI was referring to the Chargers taking a hard look at the Tackles today.
Penix had the best day throwing IMO.
I said repeatedly that I needed more to evaluate McCarthy and I like him but I also don't see him as a day one starter. That's why I said he would be a good fit for the Giants who are hard committed to DJ starting in 2024.
The thing that bothered me about Penix was while the announcers were ohing and ahhing about Penix's deep throws, I couldn't help but notice they were missing the receiver.
I know the narrative that JJ isn't ready to start is a popular one (owing to him making less passing attempts compared to other older prospects), I am not sure it's an accurate one.
As for the Giants being committed to Jones being the starter, I think if the current staff invests in a round-one QB, that commitment goes right out the window. I think the investment of a high first-round pick, trumps the contract they payed DJ
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 09:49:34 AMThe thing that bothered me about Penix was while the announcers were ohing and ahhing about Penix's deep throws, I couldn't help but notice they were missing the receiver.
I know the narrative that JJ isn't ready to start is a popular one (owing to him making less passing attempts compared to other older prospects), I am not sure it's an accurate one.
As for the Giants being committed to Jones being the starter, I think if the current staff invests in a round-one QB, that commitment goes right out the window. I think the investment of a high first-round pick, trumps the contract they payed DJ
Did you watch the NFL+ broadcast with the Receivers or the fluff one on TV?
Quote from: Ed Vette on March 03, 2024, 10:02:02 AMDid you watch the NFL+ broadcast with the Receivers or the fluff one on TV?
I watched the ones on the NFL YouTube channel
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 09:49:34 AMThe thing that bothered me about Penix was while the announcers were ohing and ahhing about Penix's deep throws, I couldn't help but notice they were missing the receiver.
I know the narrative that JJ isn't ready to start is a popular one (owing to him making less passing attempts compared to other older prospects), I am not sure it's an accurate one.
As for the Giants being committed to Jones being the starter, I think if the current staff invests in a round-one QB, that commitment goes right out the window. I think the investment of a high first-round pick, trumps the contract they payed DJ
Rich - if a rookie QB is not a day 1 starter in the NFL, I doubt very much it is because of his physicals. It's because he has not mastered the playbook, reading coverages, the speed of the game, etc. I think all those areas are where JJ has an advantage over Williams, Maye and Daniels. Frankly, I don't think any of them should be day 1 starters, not because they can't be, but because watching and learning at least a few games may be a great way to work themselves in effectively.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 03, 2024, 10:07:36 AMRich - if a rookie QB is not a day 1 starter in the NFL, I doubt very much it is because of his physicals. It's because he has not mastered the playbook, reading coverages, the speed of the game, etc. I think all those areas are where JJ has an advantage over Williams, Maye and Daniels. Frankly, I don't think any of them should be day 1 starters, not because they can't be, but because watching and learning at least a few games may be a great way to work themselves in effectively.
Joe,
I agree, coming from a pro style offense gives McCarthy a boost even if he is younger and has less pass attempts. I think playing in the college playoffs also helped getting him ready for the NFL
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 10:10:15 AMJoe,
I agree, coming from a pro style offense gives McCarthy a boost even if he is younger and has less pass attempts. I think playing in the college playoffs also helped getting him ready for the NFL
I don't know if you saw it Rich, but Joe Milton had the hardest throw at the Combine at 62 miles per hour. JJ was second at 61 mph. Some of the QBs were over 10 mph slower.
Quote from: Philosophers on March 03, 2024, 10:23:49 AMI don't know if you saw it Rich, but Joe Milton had the hardest throw at the Combine at 62 miles per hour. JJ was second at 61 mph. Some of the QBs were over 10 mph slower.
I wish all the QBs participated in that drill, as it's perhaps the best drill to measure pure arm stength
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 10:25:46 AMI wish all the QBs participated in that drill, as it's perhaps the best drill to measure pure arm stength
I saw Milton at Michigan. He reminds me of JaMarcus Russell type arm strength more so than any other college QB I have ever seen. Milton is not accurate at all, but he can throw it from Tennessee to Ohio. I have always said JJ as a very live arm, but I did not expect his miles per hour to be only 1 mph different from Milton. That's really good because he is a lot more accurate than Milton.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 09:32:48 AMAs for drafting an OT at 6. The Giants need something to get the fanbase excited. Drafting yet another top 10 OT isn't going to do it. I have to think the Giants go WR or QB with their first pick.
I'd be ok with trading back/selecting an OT if we get an "offer they can't refuse" type of deal. I'm in the belief that we have too many holes & deficits and too few picks/cap space. I'm also in the belief that a winning franchise is built from the trenches out.
While I'm optimistic that Bricillo will improve our current OLmen and along with that "a rising tide raises all boats", however, I'd still like to add a stud RT and move Neal inside to G. So if we could pick up an additional 2nd round pick this year and perhaps add someone ala JC Latham by trading down, I wouldn't be upset.
DJ isn't going anywhere this year. Schoen needs wins to ensure his job imo. I don't think a WR or QB gets more wins this season when your QB looks like he's in a pinball machine every time he drops back.
Just my thoughts...
Top
Quote from: Topshelf21 on March 03, 2024, 03:15:10 PMI'd be ok with trading back/selecting an OT if we get an "offer they can't refuse" type of deal. I'm in the belief that we have too many holes & deficits and too few picks/cap space. I'm also in the belief that a winning franchise is built from the trenches out.
While I'm optimistic that Bricillo will improve our current OLmen and along with that "a rising tide raises all boats", however, I'd still like to add a stud RT and move Neal inside to G. So if we could pick up an additional 2nd round pick this year and perhaps add someone ala JC Latham by trading down, I wouldn't be upset.
DJ isn't going anywhere this year. Schoen needs wins to ensure his job imo. I don't think a WR or QB gets more wins this season when your QB looks like he's in a pinball machine every time he drops back.
Just my thoughts...
Top
I struggle to see Schoen getting fired after this season under almost any circumstances. Gettleman's tenure was a complete and utter disaster, and he got four years. GMs tend to get more rope than coaches. Considering that 2022 was a good year, Mara is not going to fire Schoen for what would only be two bad years. If the Giants have a debacle season this year (under 5-6 wins), Daboll could get fired, but I think Schoen would get through it but would probably be on the hot seat in 2025.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 03:25:09 PMI struggle to see Schoen getting fired after this season under almost any circumstances. Gettleman's tenure was a complete and utter disaster, and he got four years. GMs tend to get more rope than coaches. Considering that 2022 was a good year, Mara is not going to fire Schoen for what would only be two bad years. If the Giants have a debacle season this year (under 5-6 wins), Daboll could get fired, but I think Schoen would get through it but would probably be on the hot seat in 2025.
Good point, however, I believe Schoen will want to ensure he gets more wins and therefore cements his position. He has no history of being a GM, and these jobs don't come around often, so I believe in wins=security in a job that is his dream. These jobs are fewer and more far in between than any other management position in the NFL.
4 to 5 wins has Mara itching to pull the trigger as he's not getting any younger.
8+ wins has Mara's finger off the trigger imo.
I appreciate your input DB74.
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Quote from: Topshelf21 on March 03, 2024, 03:33:11 PMGood point, however, I believe Schoen will want to ensure he gets more wins and therefore cements his position. He has no history of being a GM, and these jobs don't come around often, so I believe in wins=security in a job that is his dream. These jobs are fewer and more far in between than any other management position in the NFL.
4 to 5 wins has Mara itching to pull the trigger as he's not getting any younger.
8+ wins has Mara's finger off the trigger imo.
I appreciate your input DB74.
Top
Pleasure, and I appreciate yours as well Top.
I will certainly agree that Schoen will want more wins. Good point about Mara potentially just losing his mind and cleaning house if the season truly goes off the rails. We have seen him do it before. I think that would need to mean something like 3 or 4 wins though (or less). We're talking Schoen here specifically. I think he's pretty safe for 2024. I think Daboll is less safe.
Mara knows these jobs have been revolving doors recently, and I think he wants very much for that to end. I think it will take a lot for him to fire people after this season. I think that will especially be true if they make a transition at the QB position and a rookie starts a material number of games.
Quote from: Topshelf21 on March 03, 2024, 03:15:10 PMI'd be ok with trading back/selecting an OT if we get an "offer they can't refuse" type of deal. I'm in the belief that we have too many holes & deficits and too few picks/cap space. I'm also in the belief that a winning franchise is built from the trenches out.
While I'm optimistic that Bricillo will improve our current OLmen and along with that "a rising tide raises all boats", however, I'd still like to add a stud RT and move Neal inside to G. So if we could pick up an additional 2nd round pick this year and perhaps add someone ala JC Latham by trading down, I wouldn't be upset.
DJ isn't going anywhere this year. Schoen needs wins to ensure his job imo. I don't think a WR or QB gets more wins this season when your QB looks like he's in a pinball machine every time he drops back.
Just my thoughts...
Top
I wouldn't be heartbroken if NYG trades down to get more picks
There are two advantages to obtaining Pick Three. First, obviously, it's a higher pick.
Second, not so obvious, if there's a surprise or a trade above them (only two picks instead of five), they have the option to wait for phone calls and trade back out.
Lastly, I strongly believe they want Marvin Harrison, Jr., and obtaining Pick Three is likely the only way to get him. They can (and probably would IMO) consider trading a player or players considered "untouchable" in order to get him. I can name the possibilities I see, but you all can figure this. Who's "untouchable" on the Giants? There aren't that many possibilities and one of them IMO is NOT our left tackle. Just sayin' ... HINT: look for the best players who sell the fewest T-shirts and hot dogs compared to their value to the team on the field.
Bob
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 03, 2024, 03:46:03 PMI wouldn't be heartbroken if NYG trades down to get more picks
I wouldn't either. The more I look at this draft, the more loaded I realize it is. I think covid basically stacked classes together.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 03:49:33 PMI wouldn't either. The more I look at this draft, the more loaded I realize it is. I think covid basically stacked classes together.
DB and Rich: They need to be seen as "coming through" for the team, head coach and fan base after this draft.
It won't be easy. If it's a trade down that permits them to walk to the post-draft podium and legitimately claim they have gotten two first-round-worthy players in exchange for one first-round selection, then IMO that would work. There are two ways it can happen... one is to trade for a really good player in addition to receiving the trading-partner's first rounder this year and maybe one other pick this year or a high one next year.
If it's a trade down that does not permit them to claim to have obviously gotten the better of the deal (see above) then no... I'd rather see them trade up. It's time for some bold and decisive action (although I would be OK with them staying put - which IMO is the greatest likelihood) and take whomever they deem the best player available in THIS DRAFT at any position already not picked-over by teams one through five.
Bob
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 03:49:33 PMI wouldn't either. The more I look at this draft, the more loaded I realize it is. I think covid basically stacked classes together.
I've been saying that from the get go. Unless they get one of the QBs at six or in a trade up, they should trade back. Too many good receivers in the draft to grab one at six. And they've invested high picks on the OL. Maybe if they trade down they will get one. Not at six though.
A lot of smoke around us signing Danielle hunter the edge and Jonah Jackson
Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 03, 2024, 05:39:43 PMA lot of smoke around us signing Danielle hunter the edge and Jonah Jackson
Danielle Hunter is awesome. What would he cost? Guy hasn't missed a game the last two seasons, he's still not even 30, and he has averaged 13.5 sacks a year the last two years. Definitely one of the best edges in the league.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 05:55:00 PMDanielle Hunter is awesome. What would he cost? Guy hasn't missed a game the last two seasons, he's still not even 30, and he has averaged 13.5 sacks a year the last two years. Definitely one of the best edges in the league.
3yr 60 million. Rumored at minimum he wants 20 a year.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 05:55:00 PMDanielle Hunter is awesome. What would he cost? Guy hasn't missed a game the last two seasons, he's still not even 30, and he has averaged 13.5 sacks a year the last two years. Definitely one of the best edges in the league.
According to sportrac 20 mill/year.
If the Giants sign him, to me it will reek of desperation and urgency for some peoples jobs. It would feel way too much like some other, relatively recent, big ticket FA sprees that ultimately didnt save the jobs they were intended to.
And then create cap issues in a few years.
Feels like a good signing for a team like the Texans. They aren't far from the top and they have a young stud EDGE one side on a rookie contract. Would be a great pairing.
I think a decent OL with a more developed WanDale and Jalin and DJ back gets to 0.500. I feel confident. They did it the previous season.
Drafting a RT that can really play tonhelp the OL gives Schoen more job security