Outlook for Daboll/Schoen: a hypothetical

[DaveBrown74]

I'm curious:

Assume you're the owner and sole final decision maker for the Giants:

If Schoen decides to draft a QB in the first round of the upcoming draft, and said QB starts most or all of the year and struggles somewhat and the team finishes with a record of something like 6-11 or 5-12 (assume the D was so-so and it was mostly the offense that struggled), are you cleaning house and firing Schoen and Daboll after 2024? Or would you give them at least two seasons with the new QB, no matter what the 2024 record looked like (provided it wasn't something worse than 4-5 wins)?

[Gmo11]

It depends on HOW terrible that QB is.  Like even Bryce Young deserves a 2nd season to try and show improvement.  Unless he's Josh Rosen level's of inept I would say they get 2 years to develop their guy. Knowing that if this QB flops he's gone along with the GM and Coach since that was their pick. 

I would say that if they manage to win 6 games, the QB play would likely have been better than what Jones was doing at the start of this year so they'd probably earn another season to figure it out. 

[DaveBrown74]

It depends on HOW terrible that QB is.  Like even Bryce Young deserves a 2nd season to try and show improvement.  Unless he's Josh Rosen level's of inept I would say they get 2 years to develop their guy. Knowing that if this QB flops he's gone along with the GM and Coach since that was their pick. 

I would say that if they manage to win 6 games, the QB play would likely have been better than what Jones was doing at the start of this year so they'd probably earn another season to figure it out. 

Yes. Assume it's not a Josh Rosen level train wreck situation. Assume it's a typical struggling rookie season that you frequently see with rookie QBs (like Trevor Lawrence for example). 

[BluesCruz]

Tommy DeVito will start 2024 so all this is moot

Schoen and Daboll will have to figure out what to do with Jones

There will be a 2-3rd round QB riding the bench and learning

[files58]

Given what Daboll has been able to do with Tossin Tommy I'd like to see what he can do with a QB with a much higher level of raw talent. As far as Jones is concerned I think his Giant fate was sealed when the Surface got tossed in his direction.

[DaveBrown74]

Tommy DeVito will start 2024 so all this is moot

First of all, you don't know that Tommy DeVito will be the Giants' starter next season. Nobody knows for sure who will be the Giants' starting QB next year, including Daboll and Schoen.

Secondly, this thread is a hypothetical exercise relating to coaching tenure, not a prediction of who will be QB next year.

[kartanoman]

First of all, you don't know that Tommy DeVito will be the Giants' starter next season. Nobody knows for sure who will be the Giants' starting QB next year, including Daboll and Schoen.

Secondly, this thread is a hypothetical exercise relating to coaching tenure, not a prediction of who will be QB next year.

Let's add one caveat: DeVito gets traded for a Chicken Cutlet sandwich and a tackling dummy. NOW, the rest of your hypothetical exercise continues.

So, you are asking us to consider not a dumpster fire condition? 🔥

Nah! Fire everyone, including Mara!

Game over!

Peace!

[LennG]

I'm curious:

Assume you're the owner and sole final decision maker for the Giants:

If Schoen decides to draft a QB in the first round of the upcoming draft, and said QB starts most or all of the year and struggles somewhat and the team finishes with a record of something like 6-11 or 5-12 (assume the D was so-so and it was mostly the offense that struggled), are you cleaning house and firing Schoen and Daboll after 2024? Or would you give them at least two seasons with the new QB, no matter what the 2024 record looked like (provided it wasn't something worse than 4-5 wins)?

Unless the new QB starts and shows he is useless (like a Zack Wilson), I would be that they are around for another year after that. No way they fire Shoen like that or Dabil for that matter.
I can see a complete overhaul of assistant coaches and coordinators coming though. I just don't see Kafka as our OC with a rookie QB. He can't design plays to try and help Tossin Tommy, let alone a highly regarded rookie.

[jimc]

You just can't keep firing staff and expect to be successful.  You just can't.  Give these guys a chance......geez!!!

[Jclayton92]

Tommy DeVito will start 2024 so all this is moot

Schoen and Daboll will have to figure out what to do with Jones

There will be a 2-3rd round QB riding the bench and learning

A)They would not draft a Qb in the 2nd round and have him sit behind an undrafted free agent,.

B) If Devito is as good as you think he is why would the organization then use a 2nd rd pick on a backup that would never see the field vs using that for the many other needs we have?

[DaveBrown74]

You just can't keep firing staff and expect to be successful.  You just can't.  Give these guys a chance......geez!!!

I feel the same way Jim, but there are limits, obviously.

For the record I hope Schoen picks a new QB, and I would give him and Daboll at least two more years. If a QB is bad as a rookie and then still stinks in year two, that's usually a very bad sign. That was the case with Wilson, Jones, Darnold, etc. QBs who are good sometimes stink as rookies, but you almost always see that marked year two improvement. So I feel like if we draft someone in 2024, who struggles badly in 2024, and then we see no improvement in his second year, and the team stinks overall both years, then at that point you need to purge the whole thing and go in a new direction. Hopefully we don't see that happen with this regime. I am optimistic that we won't.

[Jclayton92]

Gotta give the coaches time, they've had dumpster fire after dumpster fire at Qb. Let a new Qb settle in and give them time to grow together. I think you give them 2024 and 2025 and if we aren't in the playoffs in 2025 you reevaluate.

[PackersNation]

Gotta give the coaches time, they've had dumpster fire after dumpster fire at Qb. Let a new Qb settle in and give them time to grow together. I think you give them 2024 and 2025 and if we aren't in the playoffs in 2025 you reevaluate.

Well, what if you don't draft a QB early in the 2024 draft? Then what?

I really don't think Daboll is the issue. I need to study the GM/Shoen and that whole operation more before I give a full opinion of him. I need more info on he and Daboll's relationship, and how they work together.

If you do draft a QB, I want Daboll heavily involved in that decision. Daboll will be molding the kid and you might as well fire Daboll now if you're not going to let him hand pick the QB.

But again, no one knows if the Giants will take a QB with their first pick in the draft. Maybe Schoen has some hair brained idea to bring in Kirk Cousins this offseason or some crap like that. Who knows.

Daniel Jones sounds invested and determined to be ready to go by camp. I like Daniel. I don't think you walk away from a high character individual like that cat just yet.

I'd draft a OL with the first pick, then a QB after that. I would plan to roll with Daniel for 2024. And the QB that Daboll hand picks you have ready for 2025 if 2024 is a disaster with Daniel.

No one is waiting until 2026 like some of you are suggesting.

[DaveBrown74]

Well, what if you don't draft a QB early in the 2024 draft? Then what?

I really don't think Daboll is the issue. I need to study the GM/Shoen and that whole operation more before I give a full opinion of him. I need more info on he and Daboll's relationship, and how they work together.

If you do draft a QB, I want Daboll heavily involved in that decision. Daboll will be molding the kid and you might as well fire Daboll now if you're not going to let him hand pick the QB.

But again, no one knows if the Giants will take a QB with their first pick in the draft. Maybe Schoen has some hair brained idea to bring in Kirk Cousins this offseason or some crap like that. Who knows.

Daniel Jones sounds invested and determined to be ready to go by camp. I like Daniel. I don't think you walk away from a high character individual like that cat just yet.

I'd draft a OL with the first pick, then a QB after that. I would plan to roll with Daniel for 2024. And the QB that Daboll hand picks you have ready for 2025 if 2024 is a disaster with Daniel.

No one is waiting until 2026 like some of you are suggesting.

I appreciate your thoughts. A few comments:

(1) They pretty much have to stick with Jones in 2024, whether they want to or not. He has a $47mm 2024 cap hit, and he is coming off an ACL. Plus he was awful this year before he got hurt. Nobody is taking him off our hands. So he'll be a Giant in 2024 no matter what. Obviously that doesn't mean they have to play him, but he'll for sure be on the team.

(2) If the objective is to have a QB ready for the 2025 season, I don't see why the Giants would wait until the second round to take one. QB is as premium a position as it gets, and you're not always in a position where you have a real chance to draft a franchise one. Since it is now abundantly clear Jones is not the long term answer, if they like one of the options available to them in the first round, I highly doubt they pass on that. With that said, if they are not sold on any of the options available to them, then I would agree that they'll pass in the first round and draft another position. But I don't think they're going to wait around if there is a QB there that they are high on.

(3) Daniel Jones definitely has high character. That doesn't mean he's the long term answer at QB though. He will be going into year six, and he has only had one year in the NFL without significant injuries, including two serious neck injuries and an ACL tear (among other things). Moreover, he has not played well. He has had more than enough opportunity to prove his worth, and it hasn't happened. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with his character, but high character alone isn't enough to be a winning QB.

(4) Schoen and Daboll are highly collaborative. Daboll will definitely be heavily involved in the decision process, and there will be a consensus between him and the GM for them to pull the trigger. This is a stated requirement by ownership.

[Doc16LT56]

If it's my call (in the OP scenario), Schoen stays and Daboll would be on the hot seat. I'd need to have no doubts about his relationship with the rookie QB. If I had any doubt about the HC/QB compatibility I'd want a new HC in there.

My priority in this situation is to make sure the QB has everything he needs to turn the corner in year 2.