Big Blue Huddle

Giants success normally was a result of good 1st/2nd round picks and a few mid-rounders that became very good players.

Under Schoen/Dabs they've missed (at least early reviews) on some 1sts/2nds) and seem to have nothing to show for any of their mid-round picks.

When will this change?

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 11:31:08 AMUncle Mickey,
I absolutely love your posts and appreciate your perspective...you have added a lot of value to this board; however, in this situation, I fundamentally disagree with you.  We have discussed this premise ad nauseam over the last 2 years; when said subject arises, I ask posters to cite just three veteran QBs over the last 3 decades that significantly improved with an elite QB and/or OL.   For DJs situation, in the last 40 years, I cannot think of a single example of a player who played 60+ games that meets your description.  There are examples of very young QBs who benefited from elite WR/OL play, but we should avoid viewing those improvements in a vacuum. For example, on average, QBs make significant leaps between their 2d and 3d seasons; thus, how much of Josh Allen's improvement was due to Diggs vice the organic evolution of a young QB? I am not going to pretend Diggs did not help, but he was hardly the sole reason for Allen's improvement.  In addition, I bet Allen will continue to be good without Diggs, which reinforces the notion he had the goods to begin with, so to speak.   

The only viable examples cited over the last few years are Alex Smith and Geno Smith; however, the former was 'fired' twice after said 'improvement', which begs the question how much did he really improve? Plus, Smith emergence was more about finally staying healthy than being paired with an elite WR.  As @Jess highlighted in a different thread, his per game average was consistent after his second season.  Geno Smith enjoyed just 23 starts before being replaced; from his 25th start on, his per game averages were consistent, including his one start with our Giants.

Talking Heads yap about this premise all the time; however, the data simply doesn't support this notion for vetern QBs.  I'm not saying an Elite OL/WR won't help, but will it fundamentally alter the QBs trajectory (i.e. make them into a championship QB)?  Am I missing a veteran QB who evolved into the player you described? 

Thanks King! I appreciate all the varying opinions here on the matter. As long as folks make arguments that have some level of substantiation to it, I'm cool with it.


The way I see it is no two QB situations are exactly alike. And the level of ineptitude that DJ has had at OL coaching, OL talent and the WR talent is pretty much unprecedented in my 40 some odd years watching Giant football. With that said, I can draw at least a bit of correlation when I see a cat like Tua or Josh Allen or Geno or when you see a guy like Baker Mayfield get some OL protection and go from not really having a top WR1 to having one and all of a sudden they go from kinda mediocre to franchise looking QBs. Its not a perfect analogy mind you, but there is enough similarity (at least in my perspective) to where I have hope for DJ in a better situation. It's not like none of us have never seen flashes of brilliance from him. Everyone of us has. Thekid has thrown some absoulte laser throw that crossed the 'i's and that dotted the 't's!

 I just don't think that's an unfair assessment for some to have even though it's taken this 'abnormally' long time to improve the offense around him.

Lastly confidence is a very interesting thing when it comes to a QB. Let's see what a significantly better coached OL combined with a hopefully no doubter elite WR1 in Nabers , a 2nd year Hyatt, a 3rd year Wan'Dale do for DJ.

I think we all can at least agree the support system has a chance to be significatly better in numerous areas for DJ this year.

Old networks never die, they just fade away.

NFL Network, launched by the league on November 1, 2003, is fading fast.

First came the bizarre decision to take a popular morning show off the air for months (at a minimum) and relocate it from one coast to the other. Now comes a round of post-draft layoffs that apparently will end Total Access, the nightly studio show devoted to all things NFL.

Ben Axelrod of AwfulAnnouncing.com reports that "the majority of the show's staff" was laid off on Friday.

The show remains on NFLN's online schedule.

"Like any successful organization, the NFL regularly evaluates its workforce to ensure the proper support of strategic priorities including international expansion, the growth of flag football, and the evolution of digital and media platforms," the league told Axelrod in a statement. "We have made the difficult decision to part ways with some employees to allow us to further invest in these growth areas and ensure the continued strength of our game and the business."

A.J. Perez of FrontOfficeSports.com separately reported that the league concluded a round of layoffs over the past 24 hours, with "some NFL Network employees" included.

It's not uncommon for the league to tighten the belt after the draft. That's when the work flow dips, making it easier to part ways with employees and regroup. It is uncommon for the league to systematically dismantle a cable channel that is becoming a YouTube channel of old games and NFL Films shows. Really, what's left on NFL Network if/when Total Access goes?

The move comes at a time when some expect ESPN to acquire NFL Media as part of a broader deal that would give the league equity in ESPN. If that's what will be happening, ESPN will basically be buying a skeleton.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-network-apparently-pulls-plug-on-total-access

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 01:03:01 PMPearls before Swine is one of favorite comic strips, Steve Pastis is hilarious

I love reading a real newspaper, but I can't afford them. The Binghamton Press used to be 3 or 4 sections with about 30 pages of news for 50 cents. Now it's 2.50, 1 section, 8 pages (3 are obits) and the rest basically taken from the USA Today. Awful

Syracuse Post only prints a paper a couple of times a week, plus weekends, and the Cortland Standard (1.75) every other day, not including Sunday

I now get my news off the internet Binghamton Press, Syracuse Post, NJ.com and NY Post. A lot cheaper and more content. I particularly miss "local news" that used to be the bulk of local newspapers. I suspect the day will come when there are no more printed newspapers 

I read the Newark Star-Ledger.   I think my days of getting an actual paper are numbered (I will admit it's expensive).   They have already done away with their print Saturday edition (I have to read the digital copy online) and they have been bugging me to save money and go all digital.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 12:09:48 PMHow did John and his father manage to go to 5 Super Bowls and bring home four trophies? 

Thank you, Pete Rozelle. He bestowed upon the Giants, whether they liked it or not, George Young. Appointed by Rozelle to save the floundering franchise. Given autonomy, Young put in process a plan. It delivered. And from Young and his doings the Giants got Accorsi. Now John Mara is left to his own devices. So far, not so good. But I'm happy that I experienced those Super Bowl wins.

In case anyone is interested, here are all the PFF grades (for 2023) of the Giants offensive linemen


36th of 36
John Michael Schmitz Jr.
C
# 61
41.4

Aaron Stinnie
G
# 64


Austin Schlottmann
C
# 65

Jon Runyan
G
# 76
56.5

Marcus McKethan
G
# 60
45.4

Jimmy Morrissey
G
# 67
60.1

Yodny Cajuste
T
# 70

Jalen Mayfield
T
# 62
26.1

Joshua Miles
T
# 77

Matt Nelson
T
# 68
58.0

Jermaine Eluemunor
T
# 72
68.5

Joshua Ezeudu
T
# 75
42.4

Evan Neal
T
# 73
39.8

Andrew Thomas
T
# 78
76.1

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 02, 2024, 09:16:58 PMHe only threw the ball 2 times beyond 20 yards the first 14 weeks of his best ever season in 2022.

Jones started 6 games in 2023, Devito started 6 and Taylor started 5 games.

Jones 6 Games started 33 10+ yards, 9 20+ yards, 1 40+ yard

Devito 6 games started 37 10+ yards, 16 20+ yards, 2 40+ yard

Taylor 5 games started 45 10+ yards, 19 20+ yards 4 40+ yard

For reference
Dak had 179 10+ and 62 20+ yards
Purdy had 167 10+ 72 20+ yards
Mayfield had 145 10+ and 60 20+ yard

So even if you gave Jones an extra game he'd still only average 27 which is nothing by comparison.

Jones yard per attempt was 5.7 while Devitos was 6.2, and Taylor's 7.5

For reference

Nick Muellen started 5 games and had a yard per attempt of 8.8 he also had 16 more passes than Jones of 20+ yards in 1 less game.

Easton Stick started 5 games and had a yard per attempt of 6.0 and he had 3 more passes than Jones of 20+ yards in 1 less game.

Clearly shows he has a deep ball problem and you can see in the same time frame both Taylor and Devito threw it deep more and bad back ups in the NFL threw it significantly deeper in 1 less game than Jones.

Great post Jess.

There is some combo of a QB willing to trust and throw deep, also trust his OL and also get OL consistent protection.  None of the three existed in 2023.  Dont forget 85 sacks.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 11:51:48 AMQuarterbacks who have been either dumped by their team (and thrived elsewhere, which assumes better support) or just got a lot better

What does this have to do with premise discussed?  To my knowledge, nobody is arguing against the possibility of QB with limited starts getting better.  QBs with less than 30 starts can, and do, improve; however, QBs with more than ~30 Starts do not, certainly not 60 starts. Isn't that obvious by now?

Geno Smith – Prior to 2021, he had just 29 starts.

Baker Mayfield  - His best year was actually his rookie year; so, how does this fit the narrative? The answer is it does not.  The only thing consistent about Mayfield is his inconsistency.  He had three good years, and two bad years. His contract (only $28M guarantee) is a reflection of that reality. 

Kerry Collins - Kerry Collins was a pro bowler by his second season. He struggled because of alcoholism, which is well documented. Again, this has nothing to do with magically becoming better because of an elite WR and/or OL. 

Rich Gannon – The single true example, which I have acknowledged multiple times; still, it's one example in 40 years of football.

Matt Schaub - Schaub did not play his first three seasons and was not afforded an opportunity until 2007, his per game average from that point was fairly consistent.

Jimmy G - Spent his first 3 seasons as a backup, and only completed 2 of 10 seasons without being injured.  He was never going to start over Tom Brady. Once again, his per game averages were fairly consistent from season 3 on, once he got a chance to start.  He is also a backup again.  So, how exactly is he thriving, or had his career fundamentally altered?  He started as a backup and is a backup...

Doug Flutie – Was a backup for his first 6 years before getting frustrated and moving to USFL; when he returned, he only started for 3 of 8 seasons.  I do not view this as thriving or suddenly becoming consistent.

Given the limited and frankly weak examples, which spans 40-years, perhaps it is time to evaluate the narrative that veteran QBs magically become better with coaching, OL or Elite WRs? Are we really going to argue that any of these QBs had their careers fundamentally altered and become top-tier/championship caliber QBs?