DJ vs Mahomes

[kingm56]

Matt - Here's exactly what I said:  "Mahommes looked like any other QB including DJ when under constant pressure.  Rattled, uncomfortable and missing throws because he may get hit at any time."

Any QB who throws the ball 68 times is going to compile a lot of yards.  68 or more pass attempts has only been done six times and 5 times since 1990.

Jon Kitna - 2001 - 35 for 68 for 411 yards
Jared Goff - 2019 - 45 for 68 for 517 yards
Patrick Mahommes - 2022 - 43 for 68 for 446 yards
Vinny Testaverde - 2000 - 36 for 69 for 481 yards
Drew Bledsoe - 1994 - 1994 - 45 for 70 for 426 yards

They all throw for lots of yards.

As usual, Andy Reid abandoned the run.  That's been his mantra since the Eagles.  Mahommes throws in under 2.8 seconds so he completes a lot.  What I noticed during the game was that because he was uncharacteristically under a lot of pressure, Mahommes was missing much more shorter throws than he typically does and he was really missing on intermediate and long throws more than he typically does and that was because of the pressure he was under.  He looked way more mortal than he typically does.

I appreciate the reply, Phil...you're always solid! Still, I have to disagree with you on this point. I just thought he looked special, even under pressure.  No big deal as I agree with 99% of what you type . 

[jgrangers2]

Sometimes we forget that football is a team sport and a QBs is greatly impacted by the support he gets

Sure, but you don't want to go the other way and make it seem like all QBs are the same and nothing more than a product of their surroundings

[Philosophers]

I appreciate the reply, Phil...you're always solid! Still, I have to disagree with you on this point. I just thought he looked special, even under pressure.  No big deal as I agree with 99% of what you type . 

I appreciate the reply, Phil...you're always solid! Still, I have to disagree with you on this point. I just thought he looked special, even under pressure.  No big deal as I agree with 99% of what you type . 

You and I are on the same page.  Probably most importantly, he kept his team in the game by only throwing one INT so he protected the ball well in spite of all that pressure. 

[Painter]

Patrick Mahomes does not have to prove anything to anyone. He is one of a half dozen QBs- fill in the blank- about whom that can currently be said.

Clearly that cannot be said about Daniel Jones who is in full "prove it" mode with 9 games yet to play in which any perceived, comparative deficiencies in the Offense around him may prove as much an asset as a liability. How about that?

Cheers!   

[Jclayton92]

I genuinely can't believe this conversation is even happening.

[LennG]

I genuinely can't believe this conversation is even happening.

              

[todge]

@kingm56

you said:

Have you seen the improvement in Tua since he got Tyrek Hill?  Jalen Hurts since he got AJ Brown?

You can also include Stefon Diggs whose addition elevated Allen to the top tier.

There is no question a great WR helps his QB to a great degree. In the meantime we have Sills and Slayton elevating DJ. Uh huh


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[Uni]

Everyone is assuming there is room to elevate. They had to scale back the offense and install an RG3 offense just to get some scoring. They took some of the training wheels off in Seattle and it was the same indecisive ball patting. RG3 offense is not sustainable, if for no other reason the increased chance of injury.

[Jclayton92]

You can also include Stefon Diggs whose addition elevated Allen to the top tier.

There is no question a great WR helps his QB to a great degree. In the meantime we have Sills and Slayton elevating DJ. Uh huh


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The problem is Jones is Broken so it doesn't matter if Randy moss was his Wr he's not throwing it past 7 yards. You all bang the drum for a wr when we don't have a Qb that's willing to let go of the football unless it's his hot read on a 3 yard out. To think Jones magically decides to throw past the 1st down marker because there is a different number on the jersey is something. His mechanics are shot no wrs then, now, or in the future is changing that. Kafka and Daboll holding Jones together with scotch tape and bubble gum.

[beaugestus]

Jess, the reason the Gmen lost the game was because Seattle did a good job negating SB, which has accounted for one stat I read is 40% of the offense. It's understandable when implementing the new O, when if anything is held together in the IOL with bubble gum. Interior pressure is the worst kind for a QB can face. DJ, has had 4 game winning drives this year in the 4th quarter it doesn't sound like a broken QB. I think we all could say we are surprised by then team's record so far. Maybe, if they had WRs that could get some consistency getting separation, an OL that could give him time to go through his progressions. We might see the deeper patterns being completed. So far, they have played only 8 games, let's see what happens.

[Jclayton92]

Jess, the reason the Gmen lost the game was because Seattle did a good job negating SB, which has accounted for one stat I read is 40% of the offense. It's understandable when implementing the new O, when if anything is held together in the IOL with bubble gum. Interior pressure is the worst kind for a QB can face. DJ, has had 4 game winning drives this year in the 4th quarter it doesn't sound like a broken QB. I think we all could say we are surprised by then team's record so far. Maybe, if they had WRs that could get some consistency getting separation, an OL that could give him time to go through his progressions. We might see the deeper patterns being completed. So far, they have played only 8 games, let's see what happens.

4 Game winning drives
1 in Baltimore was a 13 yard drive 1 in Jacksonville he didn't throw the football the last 11 minutes of the 4th quarter.

Jones led those 4th quarter comebacks with his legs and Barkley so it's slightly miss leading. He's 38th out of 39 in most next Gen stats. Yes there are problems with the offense, the wrs are below avg, the interior oline took a dip with Brederson out, but Jones not being able to get vertical has shackled this offense. Something is off in Jones whether it's his internal clock, him hearing foot steps, or him not being able to properly diagnose the reads. The whole offense isn't absolved they have significant issues, I'm just saying that clearly the QB is also one of those problems along with Wr.

[Rambo89]

If the 4th Quarter comebacks were being made with Jones passing the ball downfield it would be a huge factor.  But in most of these comebacks it's been the Giants running game that has led them downfield which yes Jones has been a part of but as we saw against Seattle if you shut down the Giants running game and clog up the running lanes for Jones he has yet to show an ability to pass them down field.

[jgrangers2]

Jess, the reason the Gmen lost the game was because Seattle did a good job negating SB, which has accounted for one stat I read is 40% of the offense. It's understandable when implementing the new O, when if anything is held together in the IOL with bubble gum. Interior pressure is the worst kind for a QB can face. DJ, has had 4 game winning drives this year in the 4th quarter it doesn't sound like a broken QB. I think we all could say we are surprised by then team's record so far. Maybe, if they had WRs that could get some consistency getting separation, an OL that could give him time to go through his progressions. We might see the deeper patterns being completed. So far, they have played only 8 games, let's see what happens.

I'd like to know what Daniel Jones does that makes people think he's the guy. Is it his decision making? His arm? Is it all about his legs and the 4th quarter comebacks? A 4th quarter comeback is impressive when you need it because your defense can't hold the other team down, not because your offense struggled to score for the first three quarters. This feels like Tim Tebow all over again where his offense would do nothing for three quarters, he'd move the ball down the field on a tired defense late and everyone would praise him.

We have it so ingrained that team success is basically QB success and sometimes that just isn't the case. The Giants aren't winning in spite of Jones, but I'd argue they aren't really winning because of him either. We can talk about the players around him all day, but we can also go back to the article that points out how many times he's opted for check downs when he had the chance to take a shot downfield. The 3rd and 9 play to open the 4th quarter against the Seahawks where he had Slayton wide open for a TD and instead checked it down to Chris Myarick 5 yards short of the sticks is a perfect example. He either doesn't trust his reads or is too scared to follow through on them. Neither of those are good.

[beaugestus]

I'd like to know what Daniel Jones does that makes people think he's the guy. Is it his decision making? His arm? Is it all about his legs and the 4th quarter comebacks? A 4th quarter comeback is impressive when you need it because your defense can't hold the other team down, not because your offense struggled to score for the first three quarters. This feels like Tim Tebow all over again where his offense would do nothing for three quarters, he'd move the ball down the field on a tired defense late and everyone would praise him.

We have it so ingrained that team success is basically QB success and sometimes that just isn't the case. The Giants aren't winning in spite of Jones, but I'd argue they aren't really winning because of him either. We can talk about the players around him all day, but we can also go back to the article that points out how many times he's opted for check downs when he had the chance to take a shot downfield. The 3rd and 9 play to open the 4th quarter against the Seahawks where he had Slayton wide open for a TD and instead checked it down to Chris Myarick 5 yards short of the sticks is a perfect example. He either doesn't trust his reads or is too scared to follow through on them. Neither of those are good.

So, first I would say that the Tebow comparison is not accurate. The Slayton play, do other quarterbacks miss open receivers? I don't remember the play myself, but I'll take your word for it. Going into the season he has been trying to cut down on turnovers and has succeeded, his movement in the pocket has been improved. He has, more than ever used his legs and has been getting decent yardage doing so, while Mahomes (no comparison) had some decent gains. Going into this season Daboll has consistently said they are a work in progress, knowing full well they don't have as much talent as the top teams. I understand that but to say that good receivers are not important, that OL picked off the scrap heap doesn't matter. This is also a young team some players could very well be here down the road. Let's be patient.

[jgrangers2]

So, first I would say that the Tebow comparison is not accurate. The Slayton play, do other quarterbacks miss open receivers? I don't remember the play myself, but I'll take your word for it. Going into the season he has been trying to cut down on turnovers and has succeeded, his movement in the pocket has been improved. He has, more than ever used his legs and has been getting decent yardage doing so, while Mahomes (no comparison) had some decent gains. Going into this season Daboll has consistently said they are a work in progress, knowing full well they don't have as much talent as the top teams. I understand that but to say that good receivers are not important, that OL picked off the scrap heap doesn't matter. This is also a young team some players could very well be here down the road. Let's be patient.

He appears to have completely taken any aggression out of his repertoire in order to cut down on his turnovers. If he has to be completely risk averse to not be a turnover machine, that's a problem. He's attempted something like 9 passes of 20 yards or more down the field. Justin Fields, who doesn't have elite receivers either, has attempted 8 over the past two weeks. I think that you guys have set the bar so low that as long as he isn't killing us, it's fine but that shouldn't be the expectation for an NFL QB. Our receivers stink, but I think being so turnover prone through his first few seasons has somewhat destroyed Jones and he's just not trusting what he's seeing so he consistently settles for the safe play.

As for patience, Jones is a free agent after the season. They literally have to make a decision on him after the year. Are you ready to commit to him at a 25M cap hit?