3 min Vid of Kyle Rudolph talking about DJ on Kay Adams show.

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

Are you now suggesting that a team isn't what thier records says they are?  Just yesterday you were telling us something very different when discussing the Giants 11 wins last season.  If you believe the statement you made yesterday is still accurate, than I submit the Giants won 4 games, which directly led to Eli's acquisition; the year following they won 6 games.  So, if a team is what their records says they are, than the records speaks to the talent...

Matt and @Rambo,

For the point you made to be valid, we would need to assume only the offense contributes to wins and losses.

[DragonSoul]

Apples-to-Jeep comparison; having a discussion about a QB starting his first full and/or second season, is vastly different than discussing a QB with 50+ starts.  I never had any doubts about Eli; in his second season, he was top five in some critical statistical categories. Plus Eli was a stud in HS and college.  Finally, by this time in Eli's career, he was a SB MVP.  There is no correlation with Eli; yet, the comparisons seem to persist. 

Actually there are a few comparisons. But even after Eli won a SB people were still on him and hating. I remember a Geno moment as well.

[DragonSoul]

How to you rate the talent (and coaching) around Eli his first 4 seasons compared to the talent (and coaching around Daniel Jones?

Eli had much better talent in his first 4 years, unfortunately it was a growing process and thankfully he improved through it all. Around his prime is when they had a lackluster squads from oline, defense, and receivers and tes. Eli raised the level of Tes he had & receivers. As many disappeared when they left the giants

[Rambo89]

Actually there are a few comparisons. But even after Eli won a SB people were still on him and hating. I remember a Geno moment as well.

Outside of their personalities they are nothing a like as players as far as physical skills and mental processing.  Their games are as similar as Eli and Phil Simms's games were.

[Rambo89]

How to you rate the talent (and coaching) around Eli his first 4 seasons compared to the talent (and coaching around Daniel Jones?

That's irrelevant as the arguments criticizing Jones and the arguments criticizing Eli were not the same.  With Jones it's been about production and prior to 2022 his fumbling.  With Eli it was being reckless taking too many chances down field.

We really need to stop bringing up Eli when it comes to Daniel Jones as they are not even remotely close to being the same type of player.

[DragonSoul]

Outside of their personalities they are nothing a like as players as far as physical skills and mental processing.  Their games are as similar as Eli and Phil Simms's games were.

Mental processing time will tell, arms are similar (can make all the throws), DJ obviously more athletic, yet both tripped untouched lol.

[Rambo89]

Mental processing time will tell, arms are similar (can make all the throws), DJ obviously more athletic, yet both tripped untouched lol.

Mental processing is completely different.  Eli had awareness and instincts that Jones doesn't have.  Eli had the stronger arm (underrated physical trait he had) but Jones is probably more accurate.  Jones has better North South speed.

So again not the same player not even close.

[DaveBrown74]

I see similarities in their respective demeanors and the way they carry themselves publicly and around the team. I don't see a lot of stylistic similarities in their games at all. On the field they have more differences than similarities, at least from where I am sitting.

[DaveBrown74]

Jones is obviously a running QB. Eli was a statue.

Jones is more accurate and throws a tighter spiral. Eli had a slightly stronger arm.

Eli was better at manipulating the pocket and picking up blitzes/stunts etc. Jones is obviously better at taking off and running when in trouble.

Eli was better at processing quickly and locating the open man. Jones (so far) has been more of a one read guy for the most part.

Eli routinely (including from the very beginning of his career) displayed great acumen in the two minute drill and had a knack for pulling out fourth quarter comebacks. Jones started to do that a bit last year but it does not seem to be as obvious a natural skill for him.

There are more differences besides these but those are some.

To me it's their personalities that make them seem very similar - not their games.

[DragonSoul]

Mental processing is completely different.  Eli had awareness and instincts that Jones doesn't have.  Eli had the stronger arm (underrated physical trait he had) but Jones is probably more accurate.  Jones has better North South speed.

So again not the same player not even close.

Eli had the same system and coaching staff for years, makes life easier on the processing part. How about DJ? This year will be telling, based on continuity with the coaching staff and the same scheme. But early on Eli showed glimpses but had issues even with a solid foundation. Eli did have a strong arm, and so does DJ.

[DaveBrown74]

I know everyone loves to throw out the point about how Jones has had to deal with multiple OCs. But look around the league. Great QBs lead great offenses, and their teams usually win more games than they lose. That leads to OCs getting head coaching jobs elsewhere. I'm not going to list the examples but how many OCs did Brady go through during his run? Once he was established, did anyone ever freak out when Josh McDaniels, Jim O'Brien, or Charlie Weis left? Did it matter who Peyton's OC was? Heck - Peyton WAS the OC when he was playing. Aaron Rodgers talks about Nathaniel Hackett like he's his brother or his son. How was Rodgers able to manage before 2019, the first time Hackett was ever his OC? And then when Hackett did take over, why didn't that sudden change mess Rodgers up and throw everything off?

Again, this all goes back to the difference between good versus great. Truly great QBs don't have a litany of excuses and following them around and a huge laundry list of needs in order for them to do their job well. When Tyreek Hill left KC, rather than have excuses made for him, Mahomes went on to have the best season of his already exceptional career and win an MVP and a Super Bowl. Peyton Manning goes to an OK Denver team... Super Bowl champ in two years. Great QBs just find a way.

Unfortunately those are hard to find. For those who are just "good", it's a very tough task of threading the needle perfectly, allocating whatever resources you have left after paying said QB, having amazing coaches, and then praying it all works and everyone stays healthy. But when you look at the last 15-20 SB winners, you see a lot more great QBs than good ones.

[MightyGiants]

I know everyone loves to throw out the point about how Jones has had to deal with multiple OCs. But look around the league. Great QBs lead great offenses, and their teams usually win more games than they lose. That leads to OCs getting head coaching jobs elsewhere. I'm not going to list the examples but how many OCs did Brady go through during his run? Once he was established, did anyone ever freak out when Josh McDaniels, Jim O'Brien, or Charlie Weis left? Did it matter who Peyton's OC was? Heck - Peyton WAS the OC when he was playing. Aaron Rodgers talks about Nathaniel Hackett like he's his brother or his son. How was Rodgers able to manage before 2019, the first time Hackett was ever his OC? And then when Hackett did take over, why didn't that sudden change mess Rodgers up and throw everything off?

Again, this all goes back to the difference between good versus great. Truly great QBs don't have a litany of excuses and following them around and a huge laundry list of needs in order for them to do their job well. When Tyreek Hill left KC, rather than have excuses made for him, Mahomes went on to have the best season of his already exceptional career and win an MVP and a Super Bowl. Peyton Manning goes to an OK Denver team... Super Bowl champ in two years. Great QBs just find a way.

Unfortunately those are hard to find. For those who are just "good", it's a very tough task of threading the needle perfectly, allocating whatever resources you have left after paying said QB, having amazing coaches, and then praying it all works and everyone stays healthy. But when you look at the last 15-20 SB winners, you see a lot more great QBs than good ones.

Jeff,

You certainly raise some good points.  Although, I think once a QB isn't developed and has enjoyed success, it's easier to change OCs.   I would think it would take a poor OC to throw away all the things that made his QB successful.

I would also suggest that changing OCs earlier in a QB's career is more detrimental than later in a career.  That said I remember that Eli struggled a bit early on, when he had to adopt to McAdoo's offense.

Still, while I don't agree with all your points, I think your post was very good 

[Dgoodmantrublu]

People compare Jones to Eli all the time. This is the way they are most alike.

Is there a QB in this league who gets evaluated and reevaluated each day? Maybe Darnold and Mayfield oh yeah and Watson, and Wilson and Geno and Trevor...   

[AZGiantFan]

Matt and @Rambo,

For the point you made to be valid, we would need to assume only the offense contributes to wins and losses.

And that only the QB contributes to the passing game production.

[Rambo89]

Eli had the same system and coaching staff for years, makes life easier on the processing part. How about DJ? This year will be telling, based on continuity with the coaching staff and the same scheme. But early on Eli showed glimpses but had issues even with a solid foundation. Eli did have a strong arm, and so does DJ.

So they're not the same?  Thank you for proving my point how it makes no sense to compare the two.