Can we talk about Joe Schoen too?

[brownelvis54]

Can we talk about Joe Schoen too? He blew TWO top 7 picks, and Deonte Banks grades are scary low. He also blew it when he declined Jones fifth year option which forced us to sign him to that huge deal, instead of making him prove it one more year under Daboll. He also is the one who hired these other crappy coaches. He does not keep getting a pass.

[MightyGiants]

Schoen has a lot to answer for.   Most of his best players he inherited and some of his decisions were questionable at best.

[Rambo89]

He doesn't deserve a pass but he also doesn't deserve to be let go after 2 seasons when the previous guy who was arguably the worst GM in the history of the franchise got 4 seasons.  He should be given more time to clean up the mess.

[MightyGiants]

He doesn't deserve a pass but he also doesn't deserve to be let go after 2 seasons when the previous guy who was arguably the worst GM in the history of the franchise got 4 seasons.  He should be given more time to clean up the mess.

Greg,

I don't think anyone is yet calling on Schoen to be fired.   He does need to be held accountable for the lousy team.

[Rambo89]

Greg,

I don't think anyone is yet calling on Schoen to be fired.   He does need to be held accountable for the lousy team.

Holding someone accountable typically means loss of job.  Don't know how else it would be applied.

[brownelvis54]

Let's not forget, he drafted four of our starting offensive lineman

[DaveBrown74]

I have been a huge fan of Schoen, and while (up until this season) I didn't think everything he did was always perfect, I have generally liked the moves he has made and the way he has conducted negotiations, etc.

However, by no means am I going to look the other way on him should things persist the way they are this year. He is in charge, and right now this team looks no better than a Joe Judge/Dave Gettleman team. And this is year two for Schoen. So as a results guy, I'm definitely going to be flexible on my views, but I'm not ready to hit the panic button on him and declare him a bad hire. I'm actually not particularly close to that point yet.

[MightyGiants]

So what do you propose?  How do you not give him a

I have been a huge fan of Schoen, and while (up until this season) I didn't think everything he did was always perfect, I have generally liked the moves he has made and the way he has conducted negotiations, etc.

However, by no means am I going to look the other way on him should things persist the way they are this year. He is in charge, and right now this team looks no better than a Joe Judge/Dave Gettleman team. And this is year two for Schoen. So as a results guy, I'm definitely going to be flexible on my views, but I'm not ready to hit the panic button on him and declare him a bad hire. I'm actually not particularly close to that point yet.

I am fearful we are living Judge/Gettleman part two

[Philosophers]

He doesn't deserve a pass but he also doesn't deserve to be let go after 2 seasons when the previous guy who was arguably the worst GM in the history of the franchise got 4 seasons.  He should be given more time to clean up the mess.

I'd have hoped he'd be cleaning up the mess from DG and not his own.  Worrying more about that.

[Rambo89]

I have been a huge fan of Schoen, and while (up until this season) I didn't think everything he did was always perfect, I have generally liked the moves he has made and the way he has conducted negotiations, etc.

However, by no means am I going to look the other way on him should things persist the way they are this year. He is in charge, and right now this team looks no better than a Joe Judge/Dave Gettleman team. And this is year two for Schoen. So as a results guy, I'm definitely going to be flexible on my views, but I'm not ready to hit the panic button on him and declare him a bad hire. I'm actually not particularly close to that point yet.

Think last season though winning 9 games was great in the long run the domino effect of leading to the retention of players may end up hurting the franchise in the long run.  They may have been better off with a 5-6 win 2022 leading to a reset for 2023.

I'd have hoped he'd be cleaning up the mess from DG and not his own.  Worrying more about that.

Thing though is the mess long term might be relating to the big contracts he handed out to the holdovers from the last regime.

[DaveBrown74]

So what do you propose?  How do you not give him a

I am fearful we are living Judge/Gettleman part two

I am not sure what your second question was as it appears cut off, but if I were the front office I'd proceed with the season and try/hope to get better, but if we fall to 1-5, as expected, I would start thinking about being a seller ahead of the deadline and trying to build draft capital for what appears right now to be a talent-loaded draft.

If you're asking what I propose re Joe Schoen, I don't really propose anything right now other than that he do his job to the best of his ability.

[madbadger]

Let's not forget, he drafted four of our starting offensive lineman

How much of that is on Bobby Johnson. Not a single Giants lineman has shown improvement since the middle of last year. In fact they've all regressed to one degree or another including Thomas. I have a hard time hanging that on the GM alone.

[DaveBrown74]

Think last season though winning 9 games was great in the long run the domino effect of leading to the retention of players may end up hurting the franchise in the long run.  They may have been better off with a 5-6 win 2022 leading to a reset for 2023.

Perhaps, but there is definitely a fair bit of hindsight in that statement. For a team that was so starved of anything positive, last year felt like a really solid first step at the time. I'm not sure I can go as far as to say it was actually more harmful than good, but I do get your point and understand the logic.

[Messiah717]

What should boggle everyone's mind is that it's 2023 and the Giants are still dealing with the same positional weaknesses from several years ago.  That happens when instead of rebuilding correctly you're worrying about Barkley's contract, you're bringing in a 31 Waller and you hand a bunch of money to a QB who has proven nothing.  You cannot build on top of a crap foundation.   

[StompYouOT]

I seem to remember someone here speculating Mara was behind the new Jones contract.  Could that possibly be true?  If Schoen wanted to go a different direction and had this forced on him then everything else is irrelevant.

For as much as I want Jones out there are obvious other problems.  It's not like Jones is costing us close game.  My belief is it all starts at the most important position which affects everything else.  So I'm not firing Schoen just yet, but bright spots are hard to find right now.  Except for the top five pick coming our way.