Can we talk about Joe Schoen too?

[shadowspinner0]

Fans still hate Gettleman yet Schoen is getting a huge pass. What player that he has acquired his first two years has made an actual impact on the team?  All of his OL additions have been busts, weapons haven't flourished, so why do people not give him blame yet? 

[AYM]

I hope it's not true that the Maras are dictating things like signing Jones. If so then the situation is beyond hope.

Assuming not, then Schoen is definitely not above criticism. Not a single player he's brought in has been worth the cost. Both drafts have, to this point, been terrible. If it were another team I'd say he was a joke of a GM.

If the bottom falls out and this team is in position to be looking at a Caleb Williams, no way should Schoen (or Mara for that matter) be the one making the call.

[AYM]

How much of that is on Bobby Johnson. Not a single Giants lineman has shown improvement since the middle of last year. In fact they've all regressed to one degree or another including Thomas. I have a hard time hanging that on the GM alone.

He should be canned after giving up 11 sacks.

[DaveBrown74]

Fans still hate Gettleman yet Schoen is getting a huge pass. What player that he has acquired his first two years has made an actual impact on the team?  All of his OL additions have been busts, weapons haven't flourished, so why do people not give him blame yet? 

Was Gettleman that heavily attacked by the fans 1.25 years into his tenure? I honestly don't remember but I doubt it.

Also, were you unhappy with Schoen just after last season, when we won our first playoff game in a decade a year after he and his hand-picked, coach of the year-winning coach took over? I'll speak for myself but I thought that was a pretty darn good first year given what was handed to him.

So while I in no way am "giving anyone a pass", I think it's a little early to throw the guy completely under the bus. Obviously if this season ends up being the disaster that it is already starting to look like it's going to be, then the view on Schoen will be different than it was last February.

But I'm not ready to just jump ship right now and say this guy is a bad GM or has done a terrible job overall. No GM is perfect, where every single decision they make works out well. That wasn't true with George Young or Ernie Accorsi, or anyone else in the league.

[Gmo11]

Was Gettleman that heavily attacked by the fans 1.25 years into his tenure? I honestly don't remember but I doubt it.

Also, were you unhappy with Schoen just after last season, when we won our first playoff game in a decade a year after he and his hand-picked, coach of the year-winning coach took over? I'll speak for myself but I thought that was a pretty darn good first year given what was handed to him.

So while I in no way am "giving anyone a pass", I think it's a little early to throw the guy completely under the bus. Obviously if this season ends up being the disaster that it is already starting to look like it's going to be, then the view on Schoen will be different than it was last February.

But I'm not ready to just jump ship right now and say this guy is a bad GM or has done a terrible job overall. No GM is perfect, where every single decision they make works out well. That wasn't true with George Young or Ernie Accorsi, or anyone else in the league.

Agreed. This was always going to take a couple years to climb out of the gettleman hole. 2024 always should have been the target. What happened last year, while fun in the moment, hurt them in the long run.  If they had this season last year there's no Jones no Barkley and a fresh rebuild happening which is what they desperately need.

Schoens biggest mistake so far for me is not seeing last year as the mirage it was and thinking they could compete for anything this year.

[RelaxTension]

When I 1st joined this place I was posting that I don't understand how fans could trust this new group after one magical season.
I was called a troll and a joke by a few regulars and now the team is setting records for being terrible.
I hope they can grow from this and learn from their mistakes becaue they will have a 3rd year minimum.

[MightyGiants]

Right now, Neal is looking Eric Flowers level bad in terms of a very high O-line draft bust

[AYM]

Was Gettleman that heavily attacked by the fans 1.25 years into his tenure? I honestly don't remember but I doubt it.

Also, were you unhappy with Schoen just after last season, when we won our first playoff game in a decade a year after he and his hand-picked, coach of the year-winning coach took over? I'll speak for myself but I thought that was a pretty darn good first year given what was handed to him.

So while I in no way am "giving anyone a pass", I think it's a little early to throw the guy completely under the bus. Obviously if this season ends up being the disaster that it is already starting to look like it's going to be, then the view on Schoen will be different than it was last February.

But I'm not ready to just jump ship right now and say this guy is a bad GM or has done a terrible job overall. No GM is perfect, where every single decision they make works out well. That wasn't true with George Young or Ernie Accorsi, or anyone else in the league.

Gettleman had way more heat than Schoen from near the beginning, when he drafted Barkley.

[DaveBrown74]

Agreed. This was always going to take a couple years to climb out of the gettleman hole. 2024 always should have been the target. What happened last year, while fun in the moment, hurt them in the long run.  If they had this season last year there's no Jones no Barkley and a fresh rebuild happening which is what they desperately need.

Schoens biggest mistake so far for me is not seeing last year as the mirage it was and thinking they could compete for anything this year.

I agree, although at least Schoen exhibited some degree of discipline with both Jones and Barkley. Both are still on the team, but he didn't cave to Barkley's demands, and the Jones contract, while clearly a substantial investment, is structured very differently from the way the Herbert/Lamar/Burrow contracts are, and I don't just mean the size of the AAV.

I agree that the 2022 season probably did the franchise no favors in terms of the medium term, but I do think Schoen was careful to not over-commit to the staples of it and left himself some outs.

[DaveBrown74]

Right now, Neal is looking Eric Flowers level bad in terms of a very high O-line draft bust

That's for sure. I'm a lot more worried about him than I am Thibodeaux (and I'm not overjoyed with Thibodeaux at this point).

[Rambo89]

When I 1st joined this place I was posting that I don't understand how fans could trust this new group after one magical season.
I was called a troll and a joke by a few regulars and now the team is setting records for being terrible.
I hope they can grow from this and learn from their mistakes becaue they will have a 3rd year minimum.

I don't think it was so much trust of the new regime that they were going to get it right as it was a breath of fresh air being the Giants for the first time in 40 years hired an outsider with a different approach to team building.  There was (and still is) no guarantee they'll get it right but at least they were going about things in a different way rather than the old failed outdated approach.

[BlueMoshik]

So what do you propose?  How do you not give him a
I am fearful we are living Judge/Gettleman part two

No way are we there. Joe Judge was a complete fraud, a joke. As for Gettleman, the less said, the better.

[BlueMoshik]

Schoen doesn't hire the coaching staff. Daboll does that.

[MightyGiants]

Schoen doesn't hire the coaching staff. Daboll does that.

Considering that Daboll worked with Schoen at Buffalo, do you think it's a coincidence that Daboll ended up as the head coach?

[RelaxTension]

Right now, Neal is looking Eric Flowers level bad in terms of a very high O-line draft bust

Flowers was the better player at this point in their careers.
I know that's not saying much but Flowers would have stretches of games where he didn't give up a sack. I have to admit I don't recall how many hurries he gave up though with Neal just looks so out matched at times.