Can we talk about Joe Schoen too?

[Gmo11]

I agree, although at least Schoen exhibited some degree of discipline with both Jones and Barkley. Both are still on the team, but he didn't cave to Barkley's demands, and the Jones contract, while clearly a substantial investment, is structured very differently from the way the Herbert/Lamar/Burrow contracts are, and I don't just mean the size of the AAV.

I agree that the 2022 season probably did the franchise no favors in terms of the medium term, but I do think Schoen was careful to not over-commit to the staples of it and left himself some outs.

That's a good point too. Gettleman would have tied a Jones/Barkley anchor around this team for the next 5 years. At least Schoen appeared to hedge his bet with Jones being able to get out after next season and Barkley being gone after this one.

If they have a chance to take a QB they should do that. Let him sit a year while Jones takes a beating next season and then start the rookie after that when hopefully Jones is off the books so that money can be allocated to the 71 holes that need to be plugged.

[Rambo89]

That's a good point too. Gettleman would have tied a Jones/Barkley anchor around this team for the next 5 years. At least Schoen appeared to hedge his bet with Jones being able to get out after next season and Barkley being gone after this one.

If they have a chance to take a QB they should do that. Let him sit a year while Jones takes a beating next season and then start the rookie after that when hopefully Jones is off the books so that money can be allocated to the 71 holes that need to be plugged.

If John Mara had his way Kevin Abrams would have succeeded Gettleman and they would have at least picked up Jones's 5th year option if not signed him to an extension before the 2022 season.

I have a feeling that should the rest of this season go south and they end up with a draft slot that has them in a position to draft a QB next spring that they will do what you are describing.

[BlueMoshik]

Considering that Daboll worked with Schoen at Buffalo, do you think it's a coincidence that Daboll ended up as the head coach?

No it is not a coincidence. But head coaches hire their own staff.

[RelaxTension]

I don't think it was so much trust of the new regime that they were going to get it right as it was a breath of fresh air being the Giants for the first time in 40 years hired an outsider with a different approach to team building.  There was (and still is) no guarantee they'll get it right but at least they were going about things in a different way rather than the old failed outdated approach.

You can sugar coat it but I voiced my concerns they didn't do enough with the oline this off season which could derail this season. It reminded me of the season that Getty didn't do anything either claiming they trust the players to improve. That seems a lot like the old fasion way to me.
I wonder if those fans are now trusting them. LOL

[DaveBrown74]

Considering that Daboll worked with Schoen at Buffalo, do you think it's a coincidence that Daboll ended up as the head coach?

Definitely not. Schoen was instrumental in Daboll becoming the coach here. Reports at the time suggested Mara wanted Flores. I don't know if that's actually true, but to suggest the Daboll hire was purely coincidental seems far-fetched at best to me.

[Rambo89]

You can sugar coat it but I voiced my concerns they didn't do enough with the oline this off season which could derail this season. It reminded me of the season that Getty didn't do anything either claiming they trust the players to improve. That seems a lot like the old fasion way to me.
I wonder if those fans are now trusting them. LOL
Does the team really need

Schoen has invested a ton of draft capital into the offensive line in just two seasons as GM.  You can critique them for not getting the ROI on those investments but you can't see they didn't do enough or haven't tried hard enough to address the offensive line.

[T200]

Fans still hate Gettleman yet Schoen is getting a huge pass. What player that he has acquired his first two years has made an actual impact on the team?  All of his OL additions have been busts, weapons haven't flourished, so why do people not give him blame yet? 

Gettleman was a washed-up retread who only got the job (IMO) because of his relationship with Mara. Then, he comes waltzing in here like his    don't stink. His arrogance put off a lot of people. His moves from Day 1 were not the best and he talked out both sides of his mouth.

He earned and deserved all the vitriol he got.

[RelaxTension]

Schoen has invested a ton of draft capital into the offensive line in just two seasons as GM.  You can critique them for not getting the ROI on those investments but you can't see they didn't do enough or haven't tried hard enough to address the offensive line.

I disagree and the bad results are now on display.
They only added a rookie Center this off season for a group that was in the bottom of the league the previous season.
Not signing a back up tackle instead of a couple of average WRs was a mistake as of now.

[DaveBrown74]

I disagree and the bad results are now on display.
They only added a rookie Center this off season for a group that was in the bottom of the league the previous season.
Not signing a back up tackle instead of a couple of average WRs was a mistake as of now.

The results are obviously not good enough right now but there are two parallel discussions (or critiques here). One is the idea that Schoen "hasn't done enough" to improve the O line. The other is that what Schoen has done for the line has not yet yielded satisfactory results. I think the latter is totally fair, but the former is not. In two offseason he has made big investments in the line. He spent the only money he had in the 2022 offseason on a free agent starting guard, and he used three picks including the 7th overall on the unit. And then he used a 2 on the line in this draft. He also gave a huge contract to the incumbent left tackle. How many of the 31 other franchises have invested ih their O lines more than that since the end of the 2021 season?

[Rambo89]

I disagree and the bad results are now on display.
They only added a rookie Center this off season for a group that was in the bottom of the league the previous season.
Not signing a back up tackle instead of a couple of average WRs was a mistake as of now.

This is also the price you pay when you invest more cap space into the QB position.  It leaves you less cap space to address other area's on the roster.  Unless you wanted to let Jones walk and bring in someone to play QB with less of a cap hit it would have been impossible to make the additional investments you are talking about.  And like with the other big draft capital investments in the offensive line there is no guarantee you would have gotten better results.

[MightyGiants]

No it is not a coincidence. But head coaches hire their own staff.

To that end, one thing that bothers me is it's becoming clear Bobby Johnson is not a good O-line coach (frankly, his work in Buffalo didn't exactly suggest he was good there).  Both Daboll and Schoen had front-row seats, so to speak, to see how Bobby Johnson performed his job.  How on earth did they not see that Bobby Johnson was not the guy the Giants needed as their O-line coach?  The O-line coach is the most important position coach on the team, in my opinion.  I appreciate Schoen would let Daboll select his staff, but they have a close working relationship.  You have to think Daboll would listen if Schoen had an opinion on a coach he knew and/or worked with.

[RelaxTension]

This is also the price you pay when you invest more cap space into the QB position.  It leaves you less cap space to address other area's on the roster.  Unless you wanted to let Jones walk and bring in someone to play QB with less of a cap hit it would have been impossible to make the additional investments you are talking about.  And like with the other big draft capital investments in the offensive line there is no guarantee you would have gotten better results.

What? Do you have a Jones agenda?

[fromthebside]

Can we talk about Joe Schoen too? He blew TWO top 7 picks, and Deonte Banks grades are scary low. He also blew it when he declined Jones fifth year option which forced us to sign him to that huge deal, instead of making him prove it one more year under Daboll. He also is the one who hired these other crappy coaches. He does not keep getting a pass.

He didn't have to sign him to that big deal.  He should have let him test free agency if he was asking for more than he was worth.  People have this notion that what he got was the going rate for QBs.  You pay the player, not the position.  He was never worth the contract.  They should have either franchised him or given him a 2-year 55 million dollar contract with incentives.  Now they're stuck with him till next year with a major chunk of the cap.  You could have signed Barkley long-term and it would have cost less than Jones' contract.  He's just not the guy.  He shows glimpses of good play and then turns around and makes bone head decisions.  The entire Giants organization needs to be questioned at this moment.

[RelaxTension]

The results are obviously not good enough right now but there are two parallel discussions (or critiques here). One is the idea that Schoen "hasn't done enough" to improve the O line. The other is that what Schoen has done for the line has not yet yielded satisfactory results. I think the latter is totally fair, but the former is not. In two offseason he has made big investments in the line. He spent the only money he had in the 2022 offseason on a free agent starting guard, and he used three picks including the 7th overall on the unit. And then he used a 2 on the line in this draft. He also gave a huge contract to the incumbent left tackle. How many of the 31 other franchises have invested ih their O lines more than that since the end of the 2021 season?

I will again disagree. They need to address it until they actually fix it!
Glow was a mistake they need to be able to recognize and moved forward from him being a starter.
The left overs like Peart and the frenchman have never been good yet that's  who they went into the season with.
The Thomas contract has nothing to do with this conversation unless signing him has caused them a cap problem.

Just step back without looking at the investments and look at what the results were.
They were a real bad group and the only thing they did to improve it was to draft a center. They needed to address having back ups or god forbid bringing in some competition.
We've been watching this since 2011 as Giants fans and they have put high stock in draft picks during this span with only one good player to show for it.
When is it going to be time to make sure the group is functionable so they can be a decent offense? Is everyone fine with hoping the coaches can make these players servicable? It seems like other teams have been successful like the Hawks were on Monday so the issues could be with the coaching staff and blocking schemes.   

[RelaxTension]

He didn't have to sign him to that big deal.  He should have let him test free agency if he was asking for more than he was worth.  People have this notion that what he got was the going rate for QBs.  You pay the player, not the position.  He was never worth the contract.  They should have either franchised him or given him a 2-year 55 million dollar contract with incentives.  Now they're stuck with him till next year with a major chunk of the cap.  You could have signed Barkley long-term and it would have cost less than Jones' contract.  He's just not the guy.  He shows glimpses of good play and then turns around and makes bone head decisions.  The entire Giants organization needs to be questioned at this moment.

Barkley isn't worth a long-term deal either.