Giants May Not Be Ready to Move On From DJ

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

You've been beating the Harrison Jr. drum for some time now. Would you be OK with taking him with the first pick knowing our QB room is a mess? Keep in mind that we've been clamoring for Jones to get the ball to Hyatt. How would it be with two WR threats that will rarely catch a pass given what we've seen from our QBs this year?

Tim: That's easy.  If the draft were today, I'd fight through even YOU to get to the podium. lol

No one knows what will happen tomorrow, let along six months from now. If I change my mind I'll let you know.

In the meantime, the Giants are still kicking themselves for what they believe to have been unfair treatment of Jones (i.e., not giving him an OL and an elite WR to work alone with him and Barkley). Until they change their collection minds about that situation, they will not draft a high-1st-round QB, unless their scouts/coaches/GM all agree that they would be passing up the "Next Peyton/Elway/Brady" (or some other equivalent talent).

Bob

[Bob In PA]

It is unfathomable to me that the Giants draft in the top 3 and not take a QB.

Gm: We agree yet again, but if they don't see a "Golden Boy" QB in this year's draft (or he's gone), IMO they can easily trade down a few spots to make room for those who do.  Just hope they won't settle for "second-best" with a pick that could net them a true elite WR or Edge Rusher.  Bob

[Uni]

As someone pointed out, the top two prospects in 2025 are still Williams and Maye (because they're still Juniors and haven't declared yet). Then if drops off. Way off. And Williams and Maye are almost 100% going to declare, so they won't even be in the mix for 2025. Even if the Giants don't have a shot at Williams or Maye in 2024, getting Penix, Daniels, or McCarthy would be preferable to being stuck with the 2025 class.

If you take Harrison in 2024, the QB situation will be in limbo for years. It's clearly not Jones and the team can't afford to sign an upper tier free agent vet because of Jones' contract.

[files58]

Tim: That's easy.  If the draft were today, I'd fight through even YOU to get to the podium. lol

No one knows what will happen tomorrow, let along six months from now. If I change my mind I'll let you know.

In the meantime, the Giants are still kicking themselves for what they believe to have been unfair treatment of Jones (i.e., not giving him an OL and an elite WR to work alone with him and Barkley). Until they change their collection minds about that situation, they will not draft a high-1st-round QB, unless their scouts/coaches/GM all agree that they would be passing up the "Next Peyton/Elway/Brady" (or some other equivalent talent).

Bob

It's Mara who is kicking himself, he said it. However his cash register chimes each and every day regardless who is at QB. The people getting kicked are the fans. I hope that this latest failure both the Giants as a whole and the Jones experiment has Mara finally letting those he hired do their jobs without interference. Maybe the latter was part of the compromise for signing Jones which included the two year out. 

[MightyGiants]

As someone pointed out, the top two prospects in 2025 are still Williams and Maye (because they're still Juniors and haven't declared yet). Then if drops off. Way off. And Williams and Maye are almost 100% going to declare, so they won't even be in the mix for 2025. Even if the Giants don't have a shot at Williams or Maye in 2024, getting Penix, Daniels, or McCarthy would be preferable to being stuck with the 2025 class.

If you take Harrison in 2024, the QB situation will be in limbo for years. It's clearly not Jones and the team can't afford to sign an upper tier free agent vet because of Jones' contract.

While it's difficult to win in the NFL without a good QB, it's almost always dangerous to settle on a QB.  If the team doesn't see a ceiling of "elite QB" it seems foolish to take all the risks inherent in drafting a QB.  Besides, I don't get how fans who constantly argued that Jones didn't measure up to the elite QBs would be satisfied with just a solid QB.

[T200]

While it's difficult to win in the NFL without a good QB, it's almost always dangerous to settle on a QB.  If the team doesn't see a ceiling of "elite QB" it seems foolish to take all the risks inherent in drafting a QB.  Besides, I don't get how fans who constantly argued that Jones didn't measure up to the elite QBs would be satisfied with just a solid QB.

There's no guarantee either way. Do your due diligence, turn over every stone, look in every corner and closet, then make the best decision and live with it. Pray that you didn't miss anything and that it works out.

The Chiefs did their homework on Mahomes. The Ravens did their work on Jackson. Schoen needs to do his work on whoever it is they have their eyes on.

[Bob In PA]

It's Mara who is kicking himself, he said it. However his cash register chimes each and every day regardless who is at QB. The people getting kicked are the fans. I hope that this latest failure both the Giants as a whole and the Jones experiment has Mara finally letting those he hired do their jobs without interference. Maybe the latter was part of the compromise for signing Jones which included the two year out. 

files: I've felt that way since 1955 when I started watching the NFL. Bob

[Dgoodmantrublu]

If the Giants draft Harrison instead of one of these top QBs, then everyone should be fired. Enough of this nonsense. Grab the franchise QB. Get out of QB hell.

[MightyGiants]

There's no guarantee either way. Do your due diligence, turn over every stone, look in every corner and closet, then make the best decision and live with it. Pray that you didn't miss anything and that it works out.

The Chiefs did their homework on Mahomes. The Ravens did their work on Jackson. Schoen needs to do his work on whoever it is they have their eyes on.

It's funny you mentioned the Chiefs and the Ravens.  One of the points I made recently is the environment you draft a QB into is important for optimal development. When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, they were talented enough to have put together a 10 -6 record the previous season.  The Ravens were also coming off a 10 - 6 season when they drafted Lamar Jackson.

While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.

[sooners56]

There will be plenty of QB upgrades over Jones in the draft. The Giants will be taking a QB in the 1st round of the draft. Bet on it.

[Uni]

While it's difficult to win in the NFL without a good QB, it's almost always dangerous to settle on a QB.  If the team doesn't see a ceiling of "elite QB" it seems foolish to take all the risks inherent in drafting a QB.  Besides, I don't get how fans who constantly argued that Jones didn't measure up to the elite QBs would be satisfied with just a solid QB.

Williams, Maye, Penix, and Daniels have shown elite traits. McCarthy hasn't perhaps showcased elite traits, but he's still a better prospect than Jones ever was (OSU Michigan will go a long way in evaluating McCarthy). I don't think any of those QBs are settling

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[sooners56]

While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.

That would be an interesting stat to know 🤔

[Ed Vette]

I can't stand Ralph. I'm writing because I AGREE with his speculation/argument/thesis on Jones.

The goal IMO should be to take the best player available with Pick 2.

I said the same thing when they drafted Barkley (still one of the Top 20 players in the NFL).

To me, right now, the best player available is Harrison, Jr., offense, NOT one of the QB's.

That could change, but that's the situation as I see it today, and I believe the Giants agree.

Bob

If Jalin Hyatt was drafted by the Bills, he would have ten TDs and over 1000 yards by now. He would be one of if not the top Receiver in the NFL with several other teams. The Giants don't have a Receiver problem. They should not draft MHJ.

If they truly believe in Daniel Jones, and they have one of the top two picks they should trade down and get a king's ransom. They should have done that instead of drafting Barkley. SB has not helped the team win just like Hyatt hasn't. They can get a second in 2025 plus their first and a first in 2025 minimum. Fix that Offensive Line so it make's Tommy look like Tom Brady and get a shut down corner and an edge rusher.

Of course they would most likely pick the QB.

[T200]

It's funny you mentioned the Chiefs and the Ravens.  One of the points I made recently is the environment you draft a QB into is important for optimal. When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, they were talented enough to have put together a 10 -6 record the previous season.  The Ravens were also coming off a 10 - 6 season when they drafted Lamar Jackson.

While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.

Bringing in a rookie QB into a stable offensive environment will most definitely set the player up to be successful.

In the case of the Giants, I have no doubt that continuing to improve the offensive line is a top priority. I know you aren't suggesting it, but they don't have to wait to have stable environment before getting their QB. They can do both if the opportunities present themselves.

[Bob In PA]

It's funny you mentioned the Chiefs and the Ravens.  One of the points I made recently is the environment you draft a QB into is important for optimal. When the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, they were talented enough to have put together a 10 -6 record the previous season.  The Ravens were also coming off a 10 - 6 season when they drafted Lamar Jackson.

While I might dig through NFL history to confirm, my suspicion is that teams with winning records have a much higher hit rate on QBs they draft than the teams with losing records.

Rich: To hopefully add to your thoughts, the Chiefs were in a situation that should interest Giants fans.  They had a good team with an acceptable QB and jumped up to grab him anyway. We're not in that situation, IMO.

As for your final paragraph... I'll buy you dinner if your hunch is wrong.

QB should come LAST or as close to last as possible (which does NOT mean you should pass up a QB if you aren't 100 percent in on your current QB AND (most importantly) you are not "QB-desperate" AND you had better be right about the guy you draft. It is arguable that the Giants failed in all three regards when they took Jones.

And I've felt this way for 50 years but won't start a thread on it, but I firmly believe (as part of a monopoly) the Giants (enjoying a huge market) don't need a star QB or other star players as badly as smaller-market teams (or teams with less-interested and poorer fan bases).

Giants spend far more money on the draft process than most teams, yet they seem to get poor results more often than many. Nothing will stop me from believing there is at least some "chicanery" in the draft process, in the GM/Coach selection process, or in both. Money talks louder than wins. The only losers are the Giants' fans.

Bob