What QB would you trade up for?

[Stringer Bell]

You know very well that there aren't very many sure things in the draft, especially at QB.

Completely agree with this, as well. And it's why I'm fundamentally opposed to trading 4 high picks for 1.

[Painter]

My answer would be no, and most certainly not for Williams. I don't doubt that he has the physical ability to be a franchise QB, a term which should only be used in retrospect if and when appropriate, but I have my doubts about his temperament should he find it a struggle to play for a team with even lesser current and future talent assets in a more demanding environment than that of Southern California.

I don't just understand the impatience and sense of frustration, I feel it as much as anyone else. However, I firmly believe that unless and until we see the end of the Daniel Jones saga next year, as we assume, I would prefer to do everything possible to improve the talent around him and his successor.

I do wonder, however, if there are not those here who fear that the Giants might actually win 9 or 10 games, make the POs, and so not give us the end we are so clearly rooting for.

Cheers!

[londonblue]

Being honest, none of them. I don't get that Andrew Luck vibe from any one of them. I liked Stroud last year more than anybody this year.

[Jclayton92]

Why do people constantly say that a team is more than a Qb away... Its absurd to me at this point when we see teams draft the right prospect year after year and go from worst to winning. We just saw Stroud completely transform a Texans team, Herbert with the Chargers, Burrow completely changing the Bengals etc

You either have a GUY or you don't, so why anyone would want to prolong getting the guy is just bananas to me.

If we happen to draft "the guy" this year we would instantly be a playoff team. But sure let's go with year 6 of wandering in the wilderness that is being a bad football team.

Good teams continue to draft qbs until they get it right and they also don't pay Rbs, and yet the Giants continue to do the opposite.

[Doc16LT56]

I do wonder, however, if there are not those here who fear that the Giants might actually win 9 or 10 games, make the POs, and so not give us the end we are so clearly rooting for.

That already happened in 2022. It also proved to be the team's ceiling and resulted in an unworthy QB being given a franchise player contract. There was nothing sustainable to build on.

Are the Daniel Jones dead-enders interested in a repeat of that? Perhaps the organization feeling backed into a corner so they restructure or extend the contract and lock him in through at least another season? At what point do the Daniel Jones dead-enders accept the reality that this organization isn't going anywhere until it gets a legitimate QB?

Assuming Jones is even ready to play by week 1, and in the unlikely event the schedule is soft enough and enough bounces go their way to back into the playoffs, where do they go from there? There wouldn't be any more to build on than there was in 2022. It's just a different level of QB hell. There is no realistic possibility for a Super Bowl as long as a deficient player like Jones is the QB.

[Doc16LT56]

Good teams continue to draft qbs until they get it right and they also don't pay Rbs, and yet the Giants continue to do the opposite.

It's the definition of insanity what a segment of the fan base wants for this franchise. There was a time when the organization was so proud that they determined they couldn't win more Lombardi's with Kerry Collins, so they made a power move to trade up for Eli. These days the organization is all about setting low expectations and making excuses for failing. They don't show the same kind of pride and competitive drive to do whatever it takes. Let's hope Schoen is able to move us in a new direction.

[Painter]

It would seem that for many if not most, the "right prospect" is anyone not named Daniel Jones. While that is certainly not unreasonable, those whom are cited as "GUY"s including Burrow and Herbert have yet proven to be as or more successful than the majority of those others also drafted in Round One who might somehow have been chosen otherwise to succeed Eli.

Indeed, when we get down to it, other than Mahomes, we'd have to go back 11 years to Flacco to find another 1st Round QB to win the Super Bowl- preceded back-to-back by Eli and Rodgers- and 17 years for a No.1 overall pick Peyton Manning to do it.

Of course, we're not as yet talking about Super Bowls, just winning more games in an effort to compete to get there more often than not. However, it should be quite obvious that actually hooking the brass ring does requires a whole lot more than a GUY.

While that does not support keeping DJ any longer than financially necessary neither would it seem to justify incurring a huge multiyear deficit in talent resources as the cost of a 3-5 place trade up. In any case, that's how I feel about it.

Cheers!!

[londonblue]

It is not the binary debate some on here are trying to make it.

You can believe Jones is not the answer and that trading up in this QB class or taking likely QB4 at 6 is not going to solve our QB problem. This is where I am right now.

Not supporting trading up does not mean satisfaction with Jones, simply dissatisfaction at the alternatives.

I might feel different by the draft with more time to research but I have never had a fuzzy feeling for Williams, do not get the Daniels hype given the holes in his game, struggle to project McCarthy off limited tape and the one guy I liked entering the year, Maye, created more questions than answers over the full season. Do not even try to sell me Nix or Penix. I bought into some of the stuff being said about Nix with Rosen. Never again!

[Doc16LT56]

It is not the binary debate some on here are trying to make it.

You can believe Jones is not the answer and that trading up in this QB class or taking likely QB4 at 6 is not going to solve our QB problem.

Absolutely. And it would be easier to have productive discussions on the draft if we start with the premise that Jones is not the answer. Instead I've seen multiple threads now where we are being presented with "data" to explain why Jones had the worst support in the league. Implicit in those threads is that a highly paid QB going into his 6th year requires additional evaluation before the team can make an educated decision.

Jones is a bad player. The Giants aren't going anywhere with him at QB. A guy like Tyrod Taylor is preferable, if only he could stay healthy, which is in doubt. It's difficult to have productive discussions here unless the prospect of a future with Daniel Jones is taken off the table. I imagine the same is true of the men actually making these decisions. If they are consumed with making excuses for the poor play from Jones, then they're more likely to make a bad decision come draft day.

Is the draft the answer? It's not clear. For me, there are only three prospects worthy of serious discussion in the first round. A trade up should be considered, but the bigger discussion is what to do if one of the big-3 falls to #6. That may be unlikely but it isn't impossible.

What is the #6 pick in the draft worth in terms of adding a non-QB? The last time Joe Schoen was in this position he added Thibs and Neal. For me, I'd rather roll the dice at #6 on Daniels or Maye if they're available, rather than risk Schoen picking another Thibs or Neal. There are no sure things in the draft but the ceiling on those QBs is so much higher than the ceiling on a lot of the non-QBs who are likely to be picked in that range.

[katkavage]

My answer would be no, and most certainly not for Williams. I don't doubt that he has the physical ability to be a franchise QB, a term which should only be used in retrospect if and when appropriate, but I have my doubts about his temperament should he find it a struggle to play for a team with even lesser current and future talent assets in a more demanding environment than that of Southern California.

I don't just understand the impatience and sense of frustration, I feel it as much as anyone else. However, I firmly believe that unless and until we see the end of the Daniel Jones saga next year, as we assume, I would prefer to do everything possible to improve the talent around him and his successor.

I do wonder, however, if there are not those here who fear that the Giants might actually win 9 or 10 games, make the POs, and so not give us the end we are so clearly rooting for.

Cheers!

I think the talent around Jones or whoever is playing QB on opening day will be addressed or at least attempted to be addressed. You can actually do both things at the same time. Going after a QB in the first round does not preclude you from attaining other assets either in free agency or in the draft. It is obvious that upgrades are needed in many areas. QB, based on Jones injury, and injury history along with mediocre, at best, performances, make QB one of those areas.

[Jclayton92]

So don't draft a guy and stick with Jones because mahomes wins?

Burrow went to the super bowl his sophomore campaign.

This isn't the early 2000s or 90s were you need a complete team to compete at a high level. There is so much parity in the NFL right now that the only thing really separating good teams from bad teams is the Qb play.

In the modern NFL the only thing that truly matters is who is at Qb. Josh Allen drastically altered Buffalo, Herbert, Wilson, Prescott, Hurts, the list goes on of Qbs that went to teams and they were immediately competitive because get the right guy and pairing that with the rookie pay scale is the recipe for success.

But sure let's throw Jones back out there for a 6th season, and let more defenses laugh at him. Great solution. He can not play the quarterback position at a high level period. It's like this fan base is a gluten for punishment wanting to keep coming back to the same qb expecting different results.

We've been so starved of quarterback play that 3200 yards, 15tds, the 32nd passing offense was considered awesome in 2022. Just let that sink in for a second. Cj Stroud with a bunch of unknown wrs just threw for 4100 23 tds and 5ints as a rookie.

[Philosophers]

I think the intangibles are yet to come out for Williams, Maye and Daniels (and the other QBs) which will likely move someone up or down more than most here would have anticipated.  My gut is telling me that Caleb Williams may be one who falls below 1 or 2 due to some intangible quality.  I am not sure he has the mental toughness that is demanded of this game.

[katkavage]

Do not be surprised if Maye, possibly Daniels drops and McCarthy and Penix rise, though doubtful Penix makes it to the top ten but soon after. Also where Fields and Cousins and maybe even Mayfield end up, might adjust the top ten. Lots to happen in the next few months.

[Painter]

I don't view the fact that the Giants must make significant improvements in the talent and performance of its Oline and at the X- Receiver as a referendum on Daniel Jones any more than for whomever succeeds or replaces him. Of course, there may be those here who are fighting the thought that should Jones somehow cheat them with a 2022-like season, it might further prolong their agony.

But so much for worry warts. That is unless Jones is viewed as the default if your answer is none and not accompanied by a thoughtful pro and con analysis. Personally, I would be hesitant in terms of risk/reward/ROI to trade up from 6 for anyone not otherwise likely to be available there.

On the other hand, I might be willing- depending on the landscape at the time- to trade up from Round 2 if and as necessary to add McCarthy at QB. Not suggesting a comparison but the Ravens did get themselves a pretty good QB with a 32nd pick in 2018 after having wasted their No.25 overall on a TE "Bust". Another case of luck, good and bad vs skill, it would seem, huh?

Cheers!

 

[Doc16LT56]

The worry from fans is not in replicating the 2022 season. Most fans would enjoy the ride for whatever it's worth. The front office and coaches, on the other hand, should be very worried about one player who handicaps any potential ceiling the team has.

Either way, the likelihood of another 2022 season, from an organization that has the worst record in the conference over the past decade, and second worst only to the Jets, is not great enough for any reasonable person to hang their hat on. Why oh why are so many Giants fans so worried? You'd think most of us would approach each off-season with a blank slate if not outright positivity... sarcasm...