Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
Feel good about the chances of LT Andrew Thomas (hamstring) and LG Ben Bredeson (concussion) this week. Thomas didn't suffer a setback prior to San Francisco. Giants just elected to play that cautiously.
Also, rookie CB Deonte Banks (arm) is expected to be fine.
RB Saquon Barkley (ankle) remains the question. He noted it's a high-ankle sprain and we've seen on multiple occasions now that it's not worth getting back quickly if he's not going to be able to perform at the level that is expected.
Barkley undoubtedly will want to play Monday night vs. Seattle. It might be on the Giants and his team to save him from himself though. Still 13 games remaining after this week. Don't want him to be a shell of himself for 3 or 4.
Barkley will miss 4 games. Bet on it. Those 4 missed games will equal out the money he believes he should be paid.
Quote from: Giant Obsession on September 27, 2023, 04:50:59 PMBarkley will miss 4 games. Bet on it. Those 4 missed games will equal out the money he believes he should be paid.
His cost/game at the end of the season may end up greater than for Jones.
Giants should get Barkley healthy and then trade him. Just like the Panthers did. Especially if this team is 2-4 after week 6.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on September 27, 2023, 06:08:35 PMGiants should get Barkley healthy and then trade him. Just like the Panthers did. Especially if this team is 2-4 after week 6.
Biggest mistake this new organization has made was not trading him when he was white hot at the deadline.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on September 27, 2023, 06:39:54 PMBiggest mistake this new organization has made was not trading him when he was white hot at the deadline.
The issue with doing that at the time was that in 2022 they were running a low risk/low reward dink and dunk passing offense designed to simplify things for Jones and keep turnovers down. Barkley was basically the linchpin playmaker in that offense, and since they were in contention at the time it would have been very difficult if not impossible to justify getting rid of him.
With that said I don't disagree at all that they'd probably be better off today if they had done that.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on September 27, 2023, 06:08:35 PMGiants should get Barkley healthy and then trade him. Just like the Panthers did. Especially if this team is 2-4 after week 6.
I don't trust Schoen to turn that draft pick acquired via trading Barkley, into a viable player. So the Giants would basically get nothing in return.
Oh please. Schoen had a very good draft this year. His first year with his team in place. The overreaction is quite something.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on September 27, 2023, 09:59:44 PMOh please. Schoen had a very good draft this year. His first year with his team in place. The overreaction is quite something.
This year's draft has looked pretty good early. Last year's draft was supposed to be the type of draft that sets up a team for the next 5 plus years. Most of the team's problems this year can be traced to last year's draft.
O-line- The swing and miss on Neal plus neither IOL drafted has been what one would call a hit
Pass Rush- Swing and miss on KT
Slot CB- Flott has been MIA
WR- What has Won'Dale contributed?
@sooners56 opinion may be on the strong side, but I have a hard time arguing that he is wrong to have it. There is enough evidence to support his view. It's looking like Schoen squandered a massive amount of draft capital in his first season despite having the benefit of input from the Bills and Eagles scouting staffs.
Quote from: sooners56 on September 27, 2023, 09:25:54 PMI don't trust Schoen to turn that draft pick acquired via trading Barkley, into a viable player. So the Giants would basically get nothing in return.
Off of 2 drafts not even 2 years into his tenure and we've reached this conclusion that Schoen wouldn't be able to turn a draft pick into a viable player?
Quote from: Rambo89 on September 28, 2023, 09:00:32 AMOff of 2 drafts not even 2 years into his tenure and we've reached this conclusion that Schoen wouldn't be able to turn a draft pick into a viable player?
This is shaping up to be the season of overreactions.
Quote from: T200Brown on September 28, 2023, 09:03:43 AMThis is shaping up to be the season of overreactions.
Agreed. If we beat Seattle everyone will think we're going to wreck the Dolphins in Miami the week after. If we then lose that people will think we're picking in the top five.
How does an injury report devolve into a draft debate over the competency of the Giants GM?
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 28, 2023, 08:36:07 AMThis year's draft has looked pretty good early. Last year's draft was supposed to be the type of draft that sets up a team for the next 5 plus years. Most of the team's problems this year can be traced to last year's draft.
O-line- The swing and miss on Neal plus neither IOL drafted has been what one would call a hit
Pass Rush- Swing and miss on KT
Slot CB- Flott has been MIA
WR- What has Won'Dale contributed?
@sooners56 opinion may be on the strong side, but I have a hard time arguing that he is wrong to have it. There is enough evidence to support his view. It's looking like Schoen squandered a massive amount of draft capital in his first season despite having the benefit of input from the Bills and Eagles scouting staffs.
To be fair, that draft was largely based on the remnants of Gettleman's scouting structure. That wasn't something it was reasonable to expect Schoen to be able to completely overhaul immediately, although he made what changes he could. He was hired on Jan. 21, 2022, by which time all of the in-season college scouting had been done. And any input from the Bills & Eagles scouting staff was of limited value as it would only include whatever he and Brandon Brown could remember from raw scouting reports. I doubt either team let them take scouting reports with them.
Setting up the draft board is a team effort and we had 2 guys with some prior team info none of the rest of the team had, the Gettleman team's scouting reports, and largely the Gettleman team doing the post processing in the three months between his hiring and the draft. For these reasons I personally cut him a lot of slack for the 2022 draft.
Frankly I think expectations were skewed by the team's success in 2022, which I think was more of a coaching phenomena than a drafting phenomena. It got us thinking that we were much closer than just entering into year 2 of the rebuild. And the cloud in the silver lining was that 2022's success degraded our drafting and waiver wire position.
On the GM side it was more about clearing out some players/contracts, revamping the front office and restructuring the scouting operation for 2023. And the fact that we seem to have gotten 3 starters, a potential #1 receiver, and other promising guys shows the quality of his revamping work far more than a less than stellar (so far) 2022 draft, IMO.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on September 28, 2023, 01:18:04 PMTo be fair, that draft was largely based on the remnants of Gettleman's scouting structure. That wasn't something it was reasonable to expect Schoen to be able to completely overhaul immediately, although he made what changes he could. He was hired on Jan. 21, 2022, by which time all of the in-season college scouting had been done. And any input from the Bills & Eagles scouting staff was of limited value as it would only include whatever he and Brandon Brown could remember from raw scouting reports. I doubt either team let them take scouting reports with them.
Setting up the draft board is a team effort and we had 2 guys with some prior team info none of the rest of the team had, the Gettleman team's scouting reports, and largely the Gettleman team doing the post processing in the three months between his hiring and the draft. For these reasons I personally cut him a lot of slack for the 2022 draft.
Frankly I think expectations were skewed by the team's success in 2022, which I think was more of a coaching phenomena than a drafting phenomena. It got us thinking that we were much closer than just entering into year 2 of the rebuild. And the cloud in the silver lining was that 2022's success degraded our drafting and waiver wire position.
On the GM side it was more about clearing out some players/contracts, revamping the front office and restructuring the scouting operation for 2023. And the fact that we seem to have gotten 3 starters, a potential #1 receiver, and other promising guys shows the quality of his revamping work far more than a less than stellar (so far) 2022 draft, IMO.
Rich,
I appreciate the "Schoen had to use Gettleman's scouts argument." I think there is some validity. Although the thing was, Gettleman wasn't that bad at scouting. Most of the team's top players are players Gettleman drafted. Plus, I heard from multiple sources that Schoen heavily supplemented the Giants' scouting reports with scouting done by the Giants' new coaching staff.
To your point about not taking the other team's scouting reports, I agree. Although I am curious if both Brown and Schoen were allowed to take their notes on all the players they had scouted prior to coming to work for the Giants.
It is way too early to give up on the 2022 draft anyway. We saw a lot of flashes of greatness from Kayvon last year. He hasn't been the same guy, but that isn't a reason to give up on him. Neal I'm worries about. Wan'Dale got hurt, but he had 100 yards in the game he hurt himself. Bellinger showed himself to be a very valuable piece. The idea that we should give up on that draft is silly. I feel like so many here would have called Carl Banks a bust. After all, he didn't really emerge until 1986.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 28, 2023, 09:39:27 AMAgreed. If we beat Seattle everyone will think we're going to wreck the Dolphins in Miami the week after. If we then lose that people will think we're picking in the top five.
How long before the Caleb Vs Maye topics begin?
Quote from: True Blue on September 28, 2023, 01:30:51 PMHow long before the Caleb Vs Maye topics begin?
Either or Is your answer to Caleb vs Maye.