Not citing some conspiracy that the NFL gave Carter to the Eagles but how teams allowed this ultra promising prospect to fall to one of the best teams in the NFL. People keep citing "character concerns" yet that didn't stop the Eagles from drafting him and making a great team even better. Eagles go to the Super Bowl and they draft Jalen Carter. The Giants have this miserable season and draft Thibs.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on September 26, 2023, 04:14:47 PMNot citing some conspiracy that the NFL gave Carter to the Eagles but how teams allowed this ultra promising prospect to fall to one of the best teams in the NFL. People keep citing "character concerns" yet that didn't stop the Eagles from drafting him and making a great team even better. Eagles go to the Super Bowl and they draft Jalen Carter. The Giants have this miserable season and draft Thibs.
This incident:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/sport/jalen-carter-uga-crash-plea/index.html
Quote from: uconnjack8 on September 26, 2023, 04:18:00 PMThis incident:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/sport/jalen-carter-uga-crash-plea/index.html
Didn't deter the Eagles from getting him and adding to their already dominant defense
Same reason Parsons fell. Teams are afraid to draft players with questionable character traits.
Those teams usually end up picking top 10 every year.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on September 26, 2023, 04:26:36 PMDidn't deter the Eagles from getting him and adding to their already dominant defense
That's exactly why the Eagles can take that risk. If he fails or screws up in the pros the Eagles are still a loaded SB favorite. If another team that is rebuilding takes him in the top 5 and a flops it sets them back even further. That's just they way it works. See Parsons slipping to the Cowboys.
Draft a character issue and it works out, you look like a genius. If it doesn't work out, you can be looking for a new job.
Quote from: MightyGiants on September 26, 2023, 04:58:19 PMDraft a character issue and it works out, you look like a genius. If it doesn't work out, you can be looking for a new job.
We passed on Parsons for Toney. :doh:
There's a difference between a bad kid and a kid that made a mistake because he was a kid.
Quote from: Ed Vette on September 26, 2023, 05:15:55 PMThere's a difference between a bad kid and a kid that made a mistake because he was a kid.
Couldn't agree more.
There are kids who are lazy, sulky, or unmotivated who have never had any "incident" per se, and then there are kids who are actually really good kids but had a youthful lapse in judgment and got in some trouble for it. Taking a chance on the latter when he falls in the draft can be a franchise-altering move. The Giants seem 100% closed to it. Unfortunately our two biggest rivals are not, and that gives them a competitive advantage.
Quote from: JT39 on September 26, 2023, 05:05:07 PMWe passed on Parsons for Toney. :doh:
Yeah, the irony is not lost on me.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on September 26, 2023, 04:26:36 PMDidn't deter the Eagles from getting him and adding to their already dominant defense
I think a team like the Eagles has a less conservative ownership that can take a chance on a "low character" guy. They have a solid veteran presence which helps too. We are trying to build a culture. I get, don't agree with it. Our hypocrisy disappoints a bit as well. We pass on Parsons for character concerns but drafted Toney. granted, it was a different regime but still.
Quote from: nicky1000 on September 27, 2023, 12:50:45 AMI think a team like the Eagles has a less conservative ownership that can take a chance on a "low character" guy. They have a solid veteran presence which helps too. We are trying to build a culture. I get, don't agree with it. Our hypocrisy disappoints a bit as well. We pass on Parsons for character concerns but drafted Toney. granted, it was a different regime but still.
What is a "low character guy" though, exactly? Is it a guy who may have had a bad incident, such as a DUI, but who kept his nose clean after that, interviewed well, and broadly got very positive feedback from coaches and other sources?
Or is it a guy who had zero actual noteworthy negative incidents but has a reputation for taking plays off, not always being focused on football, having a me-attitude versus a team attitude, etc.
Based on how we have drafted for some time now, it sort of feels like we cross all of example A off our board, but don't necessarily cross example B off the board. Or we don't due enough due diligence on example B.
I mean look at our team right now. Sure, nobody on the team had a DUI or a bar fight in college that he got caught for, but if we're so discriminating about "character", how do you explain guys like McKinney or even Thibodeaux being on the team?
The thing about Carter is that, unless I missed them, there were no concerns that he was dogging it on the field at Ga. Lack of motivation didn't seem to be an issue. He certainly plays like someone who is motivated.
I'd love to see some sort of statistic comparing guys with character issues to guys who actually became problems later on. I know this would be nearly impossible but it would be interesting to see. But how many teams passed on Randy Moss because of his character issues? The Cowboys literally drafted Dez Bryant because they didn't want to repeat that mistake. Imagine if we had drafted Laremy Tunsil in 2016 instead of Eli Apple? Or Micah Parsons last year?
The Giants are pretty much the safest organization in the league and it probably holds them back a bit.
The racing incident that killed a man isn't Carter's only red flag. Carter showed up to his Pro Day overweight and out of shape (reports of being winded and cramping)
RE: Parsons and Carter
No one's disputing they are great players. Everyone knew that entering the draft. The thought was they'd implode at some point and not realize their potential in the NFL.
They are both off to great starts. We'll see if they stay out of trouble because lots of teams thought they wouldn't.
Quote from: shadowspinner0 on September 26, 2023, 04:14:47 PMNot citing some conspiracy that the NFL gave Carter to the Eagles but how teams allowed this ultra promising prospect to fall to one of the best teams in the NFL. People keep citing "character concerns" yet that didn't stop the Eagles from drafting him and making a great team even better. Eagles go to the Super Bowl and they draft Jalen Carter. The Giants have this miserable season and draft Thibs.
It's hard to read past your post title. The NFL does not dictate what teams draft players. Each teams makes independent decisions. Eagles concluded they understood his maturity and character and took a chance in him. First eight drafting teams chose not to.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 27, 2023, 07:04:48 AMWhat is a "low character guy" though, exactly? Is it a guy who may have had a bad incident, such as a DUI, but who kept his nose clean after that, interviewed well, and broadly got very positive feedback from coaches and other sources?
Low character is killing someone in a DUI or DV issues. ButQuote from: DaveBrown74 on September 27, 2023, 07:04:48 AMWhat is a "low character guy" though, exactly? Is it a guy who may have had a bad incident, such as a DUI, but who kept his nose clean after that, interviewed well, and broadly got very positive feedback from coaches and other sources?
Or is it a guy who had zero actual noteworthy negative incidents but has a reputation for taking plays off, not always being focused on football, having a me-attitude versus a team attitude, etc.
Based on how we have drafted for some time now, it sort of feels like we cross all of example A off our board, but don't necessarily cross example B off the board. Or we don't due enough due diligence on example B.
I mean look at our team right now. Sure, nobody on the team had a DUI or a bar fight in college that he got caught for, but if we're so discriminating about "character", how do you explain guys like McKinney or even Thibodeaux being on the team?
Or is it a guy who had zero actual noteworthy negative incidents but has a reputation for taking plays off, not always being focused on football, having a me-attitude versus a team attitude, etc.
Based on how we have drafted for some time now, it sort of feels like we cross all of example A off our board, but don't necessarily cross example B off the board. Or we don't due enough due diligence on example B.
I mean look at our team right now. Sure, nobody on the team had a DUI or a bar fight in college that he got caught for, but if we're so discriminating about "character", how do you explain guys like McKinney or even Thibodeaux being on the team?
He killed a guy. Low character. I am
just saying a team on a roll like Philly can take a chance on a talent stud like that because they are the big stack at the table. We are/were the stack. We have to thread the needle. I don't disagree though. Sure, we cross off those guys but then we talked ourselves into a guy who has some good highlights but is not an all day every play effort guy.