Where do you see him by next years' trading deadline? Is he movable at that point? Or is it necessary to keep him through the end of next season due to cap implications.
I remember reading that Washington wanted him bad in the draft. Is the word out across the league that he's not a starting NFL QB? Or is there a Washington out there?
A lot of sentiment that he will start opening day for us with his newly drafted successor waiting in the wings.
We've never seen DJ compete for his job at this level. Does that even make a difference at this point?
Interested in when and how this chapter ends.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Rodgers is dropping back and throwing passes already
Get the surgery
Draft a qb
Get a new RT, guard and start developing the line .
Next year jones is QB1 , while draft pick gets acclimated .
More importantly while line develops .
Raise jones value and trade him for anything or release him at end of 2024 season and eat 20 mill in dead cap for 2025.
Start new qb in year 2 (2025 season)
He will be the back up to either Caleb or Drake Maye next season. Then he gets traded the following year. Pretty simple. His days as a starting QB are over.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 08, 2023, 03:29:07 PMHe will be the back up to either Caleb or Drake Maye next season. Then he gets traded the following year. Pretty simple. His days as a starting QB are over.
If he gets traded at the end of 2024 that would be a great outcome for the Giants. If he's just a backup (ie doesn't play next year), he'll be coming off an oft-injured, broadly unsuccessful QB coming off a brutal 2023 season and still owed substantial money. I think you'll have a hard time finding a suitor for that proposition. I think he'd need to play meaningful time in 2024 and actually do solidly well to get anyone to be interested. That seems unlikely at this point, especially if they get Williams or Maye. I think the Giants are going to have to cut Jones after next season, unfortunately.
I see a trade where the Giants eat some money to facilitate.
I'll be pleasantly surprised if that happens. The Athletic's polls taken from active coaches, GMs, coordinators, and other front office executives collectively had Jones ranked 22nd BEFORE the start of the 2023 season. I can't imagine that opinion has since improved. Simply put, while there may be plenty of respect for Jones as a person, I don't think anyone in the league outside of the Giants organization or the fanbase thinks he's anything other than a pedestrian at best QB. Even getting someone to take the remaining 2/3 of the obligation is not going to be easy. But that would be great, for sure.
It hurts me to say this, but looking at this objectively I believe the Giants have no choice but to move on without DJ. His 2 neck injuries and now an ACL cannot be discounted for the sake of the franchise.
It is obvious that we don't know this upcoming draft how they feel about this QB crop and if they think there is a potential franchise QB among them. I would think that if there is one they will try to acquire him.
Quote from: beaugestus on November 09, 2023, 01:03:40 AMIt hurts me to say this, but looking at this objectively I believe the Giants have no choice but to move on without DJ. His 2 neck injuries and now an ACL cannot be discounted for the sake of the franchise.
It is obvious that we don't know this upcoming draft how they feel about this QB crop and if they think there is a potential franchise QB among them. I would think that if there is one they will try to acquire him.
I think that is a fully accurate assessment.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 08, 2023, 09:32:09 PMI see a trade where the Giants eat some money to facilitate.
Who do you see as protentional trade partners? Does DJ have any value, at this current salary? Maybe the Vikings, depending on their relative draft positions; however, I'm struggling to think of anyone who would trade for an habitual bottom 5 passer at $40 AAV.
The New Jersey Giants run through quarterbacks for a reason. That reason's the offensive front five. Combined, they give a good imitation of NYC subway turnstiles during rush hour.
Fix that before wasting yet another QB.
Go, Big Blue!
Daniel Jones is done here and there is no way they carry him into 2025 no matter how he plays next season. Whether they draft a QB or not. It's just too costly of a contract for a player with his injury history.
If they do draft a QB, there is no way of knowing how that will play out. So it's just a guessing game on whether the Giants get trade value for him in 2024. They won't risk paying the bonus in 2025 to trade him.
Schoen is not going to risk his career in a game of Russian Roulette with a bullet marked DJ.
So one thing is certain. Jones moves on before any guarantees kick in.
As it looks now, he becomes some GM's take a chance lottery or he becomes a career backup. I think he will wind up on a team that will take a chance with him as a starter and who knows, maybe he has a Geno Smith destiny.
It would take a Brock Osweiler type trade for someone to take him and at that point we should just cut him rather than eat the money for a comp pick.
Jones should be done. Bite the bullet, take the hit and refocus on building the Giants into a team that improves in areas of weakness next year.
Lord knows we have plenty of them.
Quote from: Torus34 on November 09, 2023, 08:14:35 AMThe New Jersey Giants run through quarterbacks for a reason. That reason's the offensive front five. Combined, they give a good imitation of NYC subway turnstiles during rush hour.
Fix that before wasting yet another QB.
Go, Big Blue!
They have been fixing the line for a decade. Except they haven't. Offensive line play is bad throughout the NFL. Get a QB that has some idea on how to handle pressure. DJ had no idea.
They have an all pro left tackle who is only 24, and they got the best center prospect in the last draft. I appreciate that the line is still a major work in progress, and obviously it needs more help, but it's in a better position from a foundational point of view than it was a few years ago.
Daniel Jones will be fine after football.
His career with the Giants is all but over. Hopefully this fiasco will serve as notice to Mara that he needs to let the football people do football things. He just needs to sign the checks.
Quote from: T200 on November 09, 2023, 12:31:21 PMDaniel Jones will be fine after football.
His career with the Giants is all but over. Hopefully this fiasco will serve as notice to Mara that he needs to let the football people do football things. He just needs to sign the checks.
Let's hope you're right. He hasn't shown any willingness to stop meddling as long as he's been in control.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Jones will be week 1 starter next year even though they draft one on the spring. By week 7 he will be replaced by the rookie and then off the team by the offseason.
We said when Jones was drafted, either he hits or we set the franchise back 4-5 years. We we have done just that, set the franchise back.
We draft a new QB and we start it all over again. Let's move on and try and get it right this time.
Quote from: LennG on November 10, 2023, 11:10:35 AMWe said when Jones was drafted, either he hits or we set the franchise back 4-5 years. We we have done just that, set the franchise back.
We draft a new QB and we start it all over again. Let's move on and try and get it right this time.
When the dust settles, we'll only have Dex and Thomas remaining from the DG era, despite all the top 6/10 picks. I feel good about the current young talent, but we desperately need a QB to bring it together. We're set in the secondary and the LB look ok; with Thibs and Dex on the line, we're an edge rusher from a plus defense. We'll have picks and cap space this year; if we nail the QB, we could be competitive in 2025.
His contract, injury history, and performance will keep him from getting traded. He'll go on IR to start the season, Tyrod Taylor (or some other cheap vet) will start but waiting in the wings will be the new rookie. The new rookie starts by week 10. If they bring Jones back up when he's ready, I think he'll start and cut the vet. If the rookie is starting, there are going to be too many calls for Jones if there are bumps in the road.
I think the rookie starts week 1, daboll and schoen are on a clock.
Just a guessing game as to who starts and when. Let's get the Franchise QB on the team first.
Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on November 08, 2023, 02:54:17 PMWhere do you see him by next years' trading deadline? Is he movable at that point? Or is it necessary to keep him through the end of next season due to cap implications.
I remember reading that Washington wanted him bad in the draft. Is the word out across the league that he's not a starting NFL QB? Or is there a Washington out there?
A lot of sentiment that he will start opening day for us with his newly drafted successor waiting in the wings.
We've never seen DJ compete for his job at this level. Does that even make a difference at this point?
Interested in when and how this chapter ends.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
at this point, we need to at least have a serious contingency plan in place. he will 90% likely be the starter next year, even if we take a qb high in the draft. but his leash will probably be much shorter. between the injuries and his ineffective play (how much of that is his fault remains up for debate, but its the truth nonetheless), its unlikely it will just "click" in year 6. i'm not 100% convinced we will take a qb round one, passing on a guy like marvin harrison could be a huge mistake. but we cant go into next year with guys like devito, or an injury prone 35 year old journeyman like tyrod. its time jones faced some serious competition, and god forbid he gets hurt again, someone that can get in there and really make some noise. it sucks, but the clock is truly running out, and as much as i've defended him and pulled for him, he just isnt getting it done.
Quote from: babywhales on November 08, 2023, 03:21:27 PMRodgers is dropping back and throwing passes already
Get the surgery
Draft a qb
Get a new RT, guard and start developing the line .
Next year jones is QB1 , while draft pick gets acclimated .
More importantly while line develops .
Raise jones value and trade him for anything or release him at end of 2024 season and eat 20 mill in dead cap for 2025.
Start new qb in year 2 (2025 season)
This is the most likely scenario unless he puts up a pro bowl year next year.
Quote from: Torus34 on November 09, 2023, 08:14:35 AMThe New Jersey Giants run through quarterbacks for a reason. That reason's the offensive front five. Combined, they give a good imitation of NYC subway turnstiles during rush hour.
Fix that before wasting yet another QB.
Go, Big Blue!
this is the number one reason im not all in one tanking and getting a qb #1 overall. how does it help us? i asked a question on one of the facebook groups earlier. lets say theoretically caleb had come out same year as jones. we picked caleb. EVERY other scenario over the last 5 years is exactly the same. how many more games would we have won?
and thats why i personally feel picking a qb right now that high, doesnt really help us much. too many other holes. could it be great for the future? sure. but with how much we'd have to give up to get that high most likely, we could fill a lot of other holes.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 10, 2023, 10:58:45 AMJones will be week 1 starter next year even though they draft one on the spring. By week 7 he will be replaced by the rookie and then off the team by the offseason.
I'm not so sure. It's possible, but (1) Jones is not guaranteed to be ready to go by week one, and (2) if it's Williams or Maye I'm not sure they wait.
The rookie will start from day 1. I have no doubt about that
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 10, 2023, 02:09:25 PMthis is the number one reason im not all in one tanking and getting a qb #1 overall. how does it help us? i asked a question on one of the facebook groups earlier. lets say theoretically caleb had come out same year as jones. we picked caleb. EVERY other scenario over the last 5 years is exactly the same. how many more games would we have won?
and thats why i personally feel picking a qb right now that high, doesnt really help us much. too many other holes. could it be great for the future? sure. but with how much we'd have to give up to get that high most likely, we could fill a lot of other holes.
It's funny how so many are fixated on getting one of the top 3 draft slots to get a QB when Trevor Lawrence is the only one of the top QBs in the league who were drafted top 3.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 10, 2023, 03:48:00 PMIt's funny how so many are fixated on getting one of the top 3 draft slots to get a QB when Trevor Lawrence is the only one of the top QBs in the league who were drafted top 3.
I guess Joe Burrow isn't a top QB.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 10, 2023, 02:09:25 PMthis is the number one reason im not all in one tanking and getting a qb #1 overall. how does it help us? i asked a question on one of the facebook groups earlier. lets say theoretically caleb had come out same year as jones. we picked caleb. EVERY other scenario over the last 5 years is exactly the same. how many more games would we have won?
and thats why i personally feel picking a qb right now that high, doesnt really help us much. too many other holes. could it be great for the future? sure. but with how much we'd have to give up to get that high most likely, we could fill a lot of other holes.
That's an apples to oranges comparison though so it doesn't work. Daniel Jones wasn't broken, he just wasn't an elite or even great qb that compounded on a bad team. Because if we take an elite Qb from the past 5 years instead of Jones we are a completely different franchise right now.
Look what Joe Burrow did for the a horrible Bengals team. Elite Qbs cover up a ton of warts and make bad teams good, and great teams elite.
Just because Jones was a huge bust doesn't mean another Qb would have been.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 10, 2023, 04:25:01 PMJust because Jones was a huge bust doesn't mean another Qb would have been.
Exactly. Are we arguing never to pick a QB? Jones was overdrafted at 6. For five years now, we've wondered if Jones is the guy and in the second year of the same system he was supposed to take a step up and hasn't.
Teams get this wrong every year. The last time we got it right was almost 20 years ago now. If Schoen and Daboll get it wrong next year, they'll be replaced by someone else.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 10, 2023, 03:49:52 PMI guess Joe Burrow isn't a top QB.
CJ stroud is also putting up unbelievable numbers, playing on a bad team.
Quote from: kingm56 on November 10, 2023, 05:54:17 PMCJ stroud is also putting up unbelievable numbers, playing on a bad team.
And Tua is leading the MVP race per the betting markets.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 10, 2023, 05:57:03 PMAnd Tua is leading the MVP race per the betting markets.
It's all perception. Qb is all that matters you either have one or you don't.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 10, 2023, 03:49:52 PMI guess Joe Burrow isn't a top QB.
You're right, I missed him. So, 2 of about 10. And lots of guys drafted ahead of the other guys turned out to not be elite. So while I made an error the larger point still holds.
Mahomes - 10th, 2nd qb
Burrow - 1st, 1st qb
Allen - 7th, 3rd qb
Herbert - 6th, 3rd qb
Hurts - 53rd, 5th qb
Rodgers - 24th, 2nd qb
Jackson - 32nd, 5th qb
Lawrence - 1st, 1st qb
Prescott - 37th, 8th qb
Cousins - 102nd, 8th qb
I took my top 10 from this:
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/ranking-the-10-best-nfl-qbs-for-2023-whats-the-order-after-patrick-mahomes
Obviously their ranking can be quibbled with, but it seems reasonable. But just in case, the next 2, Stafford and Goff were both #1 picks. But then comes Russell Wilson, 75th pick and 6th QB.
In the time period since Stafford, the first #1 on the list, 11 QBs have been the #1 in the draft. Other than Stafford, not 1 of them has won a Superbowl. One could almost say that for QBs the #1 draft slots has become cursed.
I'm not sure what point is being made here? How many QBs were drafted #1 overall and how many were drafted with all subsequent picks?
There were many more QBs drafted who weren't #1 overall so there is obviously going to be more successful QBs from that category. That doesn't say anything about the value of drafting a QB #1 overall. It just tells me if I draft one player #1 overall and 20 players after #1 overall, I'm more likely to find a franchise QB from the pool of 20 players. But that doesn't help me build my team unless I actually drafted each of those 20 QBs and gave them all of the same coaching and development they would've received on separate teams. It isn't practical or feasible.
In other words, if you're buying a raffle ticket and you can only buy one, you want the one with the best odds and highest payout. You don't buy the raffle ticket with worse odds and a smaller payout.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 10, 2023, 04:25:01 PMThat's an apples to oranges comparison though so it doesn't work. Daniel Jones wasn't broken, he just wasn't an elite or even great qb that compounded on a bad team. Because if we take an elite Qb from the past 5 years instead of Jones we are a completely different franchise right now.
Look what Joe Burrow did for the a horrible Bengals team. Elite Qbs cover up a ton of warts and make bad teams good, and great teams elite.
Just because Jones was a huge bust doesn't mean another Qb would have been.
I Will never argue whos better between burrow or jones, but those receivers certainly help...
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 11, 2023, 10:34:59 AMI Will never argue whos better between burrow or jones, but those receivers certainly help...
Burrow lost Chase for a 5 game stretch last season, and actually put up better numbers. The same is true with Mahomes and Hill. Brady was great for years, with, or without, an elite WRs.
Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 11, 2023, 10:34:59 AMI Will never argue whos better between burrow or jones, but those receivers certainly help...
one won a national championship and went to a super bowl in his 2nt or 3rdd year, I don't think there is an argument to be made.
My goodness, are we really still comparing Jones to Burrow, or even still vaguely hinting at comparisons or "what if" type hypotheticals?
Shouldn't we be well past this by now?
Jones having surgery today. Gives him 9 full months to return.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 22, 2023, 08:25:13 AMJones having surgery today. Gives him 9 full months to return.
Right which means he has a chance to start week 1 or at least be active. The narrative that he won't is to justify getting rid of him in 2024 by stashing him on the PUP/IR so he can't get hurt again.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 22, 2023, 08:25:13 AMJones having surgery today. Gives him 9 full months to return.
He will not play a single down before September 2024.
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on November 22, 2023, 09:33:48 AMHe will not play a single down before September 2024.
Hiw many did he play before September this year? Serious question, not trying to be a jerk
Quote from: babywhales on November 08, 2023, 03:21:27 PMRodgers is dropping back and throwing passes already
Get the surgery
Draft a qb
Get a new RT, guard and start developing the line .
Next year jones is QB1 , while draft pick gets acclimated .
More importantly while line develops .
Raise jones value and trade him for anything or release him at end of 2024 season and eat 20 mill in dead cap for 2025.
Start new qb in year 2 (2025 season)
A new RT? Do you think Neal is a bust? Or a non-starter RT?
Quote from: GordonGekko80 on November 22, 2023, 09:33:48 AMHe will not play a single down before September 2024.
That's not the debate. No one expects him to play during the preseason. It's opening day that's the debate.
The Giants win a few games and are not even in a position to get one of top 3 QBs without trading up; which they refuse to do. They draft another o-line player with their 1st pick. They pick a QB with a 3rd round pick who never sees the field unless Jones is hurt.
Jones starts week 1 and every game for years here. The Giants remain mediocre, and suck compared with the Cowboys and Eagles. Jones has the occasional good game against the bad defenses and teams like Dvito had vs against the Redskins.
Quote from: Fletch on November 22, 2023, 01:13:25 PMThe Giants win a few games and are not even in a position to get one of top 3 QBs without trading up; which they refuse to do. They draft another o-line player with their 1st pick. They pick a QB with a 3rd round pick who never sees the field unless Jones is hurt.
Jones starts week 1 and every game for years here. The Giants remain mediocre, and suck compared with the Cowboys and Eagles. Jones has the occasional good game against the bad defenses and teams like Dvito had vs against the Redskins.
"Remain" mediocre? Are we even mediocre now? I understand you could apply that to last year, but last year we won with mirrors with an incredibly easy schedule. Every other year under Jones has been well below mediocre. And so is this year.
If the Giants plan on building around Jones long term and not making a major change at QB in the next season or two, they will have dug their own grave, and they will start to seriously lose fans.
I don't think Jones is terrible or anything, but he cannot remotely be trusted to stay healthy, and he's simply not very good. He has clearly been outplayed by the other two QBs on his same team. That's a huge problem, and it negates all the excuses for why he isn't better.
I do think he's terrible. He was probably the worst starting QB in the NFL this season. If they don't address QB in the first round, it will be a disaster for this franchise.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 22, 2023, 01:27:20 PM"Remain" mediocre? Are we even mediocre now? I understand you could apply that to last year, but last year we won with mirrors with an incredibly easy schedule. Every other year under Jones has been well below mediocre. And so is this year.
If the Giants plan on building around Jones long term and not making a major change at QB in the next season or two, they will have dug their own grave, and they will start to seriously lose fans.
I don't think Jones is terrible or anything, but he cannot remotely be trusted to stay healthy, and he's simply not very good. He has clearly been outplayed by the other two QBs on his same team. That's a huge problem, and it negates all the excuses for why he isn't better.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 22, 2023, 01:32:44 PMI do think he's terrible. He was probably the worst starting QB in the NFL this season. If they don't address QB in the first round, it will be a disaster for this franchise.
The time for that is long gone; like 160 mil / 4yrs ago. Where have you guys been? What has changed ? They won against some shitty teams and got totally smoked by the Eagles; just like they got smoked by the Cowboys (remember when people were saying "it's only one game"? / they all look the same vs a real contender). This wasn't a good team last year either. Jones wasn't really good last year. 15 throwing TDs is not good at all ok.
I know people are going to accuse me of being a conspiracy nut by I know the fix was in for Jones because MARA. a PLAYOFF WIN WAS ALL HE NEEDED TO EXTEND JONES. oh well his team. I think my work is pretty much done. Now everyone agrees Jones sucks and needs to go but, he will remain here. I just got kicked off BBI for being a Jets fan too. Like heaven forbid you actually want to see another NY sports team do well and see what A Rodgers could do with them. I wonder what Giants gear will fetch on ebay these days.
Quote from: Fletch on November 22, 2023, 03:35:54 PMI know people are going to accuse me of being a conspiracy nut by I know the fix was in for Jones because MARA. a PLAYOFF WIN WAS ALL HE NEEDED TO EXTEND JONES. oh well his team. I think my work is pretty much done.
I'm probably misunderstanding what you're saying, but when you say "the fix was in for Jones" because all they needed was a playoff win to extend him, are you saying that Mara somehow got the Vikings to lose intentionally in a playoff game so that he could extend Jones?
Where/what was the "fix", exactly?
They can easily get out of the contract after year 2 and they still have plenty of cap space next season. YOu don't compound a mistake by ignoring the position. And there was no QB for them to draft after last season. Now they will be in position to address the position.
Quote from: Fletch on November 22, 2023, 03:35:54 PMThe time for that is long gone; like 160 mil / 4yrs ago. Where have you guys been? What has changed ? They won against some shitty teams and got totally smoked by the Eagles; just like they got smoked by the Cowboys (remember when people were saying "it's only one game"? / they all look the same vs a real contender). This wasn't a good team last year either. Jones wasn't really good last year. 15 throwing TDs is not good at all ok.
I know people are going to accuse me of being a conspiracy nut by I know the fix was in for Jones because MARA. a PLAYOFF WIN WAS ALL HE NEEDED TO EXTEND JONES. oh well his team. I think my work is pretty much done. Now everyone agrees Jones sucks and needs to go but, he will remain here. I just got kicked off BBI for being a Jets fan too. Like heaven forbid you actually want to see another NY sports team do well and see what A Rodgers could do with them. I wonder what Giants gear will fetch on ebay these days.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 22, 2023, 06:22:00 PMThey can easily get out of the contract after year 2 and they still have plenty of cap space next season. YOu don't compound a mistake by ignoring the position. And there was no QB for them to draft after last season. Now they will be in position to address the position.
That's the important thing to remember when discussing Jones' contract. What other options did they have? It's not like Baker Mayfield was gonna do much better and they weren't in position to draft a QB. Maybe Will Levis as he started to fall. But to get him which ot JMS or Hyatt would you like to give up? So I think Schoens hands were kinda tied. Jones wasn't going to accept any sort of hometown discount (nor should he) so they would really be stuck with Taylor who can't stay healthy and while better than Jones was hardly impressive. But now they should be high enough to take a QB. Provided the Passing Paisano doesn't go ahead and win another game!
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 22, 2023, 09:57:21 AMHiw many did he play before September this year? Serious question, not trying to be a jerk
I was including practice. ;)
He won't practice in any of the OTAs or any other type of practices on the field.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 22, 2023, 05:08:17 PMI'm probably misunderstanding what you're saying, but when you say "the fix was in for Jones" because all they needed was a playoff win to extend him, are you saying that Mara somehow got the Vikings to lose intentionally in a playoff game so that he could extend Jones?
Where/what was the "fix", exactly?
I think it was obvious that Daboll and Shoen were ready to move on from Jones the minute they got here. And it was also obvious that Mara really wanted to keep giving him chances given all his public statements about Jones. All Jones needed to do was basically not have a season like the one he had this year and Mara would have extended him. And I do not believe there is an owner in the NFL that does not have input on the QB MAra is not alone. Heck I remember reading somewhere Ernie had a hard time of convincing Wellington Mara to draft Eli Manning -- he wanted to stick with Krrry Collins. (Although that does not seem as bad as the Jones contract).
I really doubt they move on from Jones for at least 2 more years.
They had Baker, Jimmy out there. And they could have drafted Will Levis. It should have been obvious after the Eagles playoff game that this team was not ready to compete.
It's not so much about Daniel Jones's level of play. It's about the injuries. If he weren't hurt, I have no doubt the Giants would keep him around and insist on him as the starter for years. But if he can't come back in time, all bets are off, the Giants will have to move on from him. My guess is that DJ is too physically diminished at this point to remain the starting QB of the NY football Giants.
Quote from: BlueMoshik on November 23, 2023, 06:03:32 AMIt's not so much about Daniel Jones's level of play. It's about the injuries. If he weren't hurt, I have no doubt the Giants would keep him around and insist on him as the starter for years. But if he can't come back in time, all bets are off, the Giants will have to move on from him. My guess is that DJ is too physically diminished at this point to remain the starting QB of the NY football Giants.
If Schoen and Daboll (Mara notwithstanding) don't recognize the mediocre, at best, level of play Jones has displayed over his five plus years then the Giants are in poor hands with these two. But I get what you are saying.
Quote from: katkavage on November 23, 2023, 07:49:12 AMIf Schoen and Daboll (Mara notwithstanding) don't recognize the mediocre, at best, level of play Jones has displayed over his five plus years then the Giants are in poor hands with these two. But I get what you are saying.
I agree, and I also think the platform of constant excuse-mongering for Jones has been severely undermined by the play of other QBs on this team this year. While it is true that Jones has not been in a good situation, he has handled it worse than much cheaper and, in the case of DeVito, much less experienced QBs have managed to.
There's really just no way around it anymore. Jones is simply not good. I had long thought of him as "decent" or even "good", but just not great. In the interest of "getting it right" instead of "being right", I have reconsidered my view based on new data and now think I have been overrating him this whole time. I now think the Athletic survey's non top 20 ranking compiled from the 50 active GMs, head coaches, coordinators, and other currently employed front office execs is more accurate than my previously held view that he was somewhere in the 14th-18th type range.
Why does it matter that they could have gotten another pedestrian qb instead of the one we already had that already knew the playbook. None of the Qbs listed in this thread are any better than Jones. Jones, Levis, Jimmy, and Baker etc are all backup Qbs. So does it really matter which of the 4-6 backups you use while you build up the team? Jones was always the stop gap qb until schoen was in a position to get their guy.
QuoteWhy does it matter that they could have gotten another pedestrian qb instead of the one we already had that already knew the playbook. None of the Qbs listed in this thread are any better than Jones. Jones, Levis, Jimmy, and Baker etc are all backup Qbs. So does it really matter which of the 4-6 backups you use while you build up the team? Jones was always the stop gap qb until schoen was in a position to get their guy.
gee i don't know why does it matter that all those guys are still playing while Jones is hurt yet again? Why does it matter that those guys could be had for 1/2 to 1/4 the money Jones is getting paid while not even being on the field?
That is sort of like asking why does it matter to watch a winning football team than a losing one.
All of those QBs are better than Jones. None of them are really back ups. Also Jones was a stop gap now? That is a pretty hefty price for one.
Shoen's and Daboll's Josh Allen cred pretty much went out the window with this season 3 wins and the Jones signing . I am not even sure I trust then to pick a QB.
No. They still have credibility. You just can't deal with adversity. Good thing players and coaches aren't this soft.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 23, 2023, 02:46:01 PMWhy does it matter that they could have gotten another pedestrian qb instead of the one we already had that already knew the playbook. None of the Qbs listed in this thread are any better than Jones. Jones, Levis, Jimmy, and Baker etc are all backup Qbs. So does it really matter which of the 4-6 backups you use while you build up the team? Jones was always the stop gap qb until schoen was in a position to get their guy.
Money. Less money paid this year, less money next year and lower dead cap hit if they decide to part ways. Or, they could have rolled with Tyrod knowing they would be drafting a QB in next year's draft.
Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 23, 2023, 03:26:32 PMNo. They still have credibility. You just can't deal with adversity. Good thing players and coaches aren't this soft.
They do? If The Giants have not been through a bunch of coach firings recently -- all the fans would be calling for their firing and rightfull so.
If I could roll my eyes any harder I would. Go enjoy some time with your family.
Quote from: T200 on November 23, 2023, 03:28:47 PMMoney. Less money paid this year, less money next year and lower dead cap hit if they decide to part ways. Or, they could have rolled with Tyrod knowing they would be drafting a QB in next year's draft.
True but most middle of the road qbs cost that much now so really just haggling over a few million. I was against Jones resigning the whole time, I thought we should have blown it up and started over but they didn't and thought Jones would at least keep in things while they built up the team. That's not the case so it just accelerates their clock.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 23, 2023, 08:31:01 AMI agree, and I also think the platform of constant excuse-mongering for Jones has been severely undermined by the play of other QBs on this team this year. While it is true that Jones has not been in a good situation, he has handled it worse than much cheaper and, in the case of DeVito, much less experienced QBs have managed to.
There's really just no way around it anymore. Jones is simply not good. I had long thought of him as "decent" or even "good", but just not great. In the interest of "getting it right" instead of "being right", I have reconsidered my view based on new data and now think I have been overrating him this whole time. I now think the Athletic survey's non top 20 ranking compiled from the 50 active GMs, head coaches, coordinators, and other currently employed front office execs is more accurate than my previously held view that he was somewhere in the 14th-18th type range.
I've said it for a long time now. Although I've rooted like crazy for Jones to be our guy, he is Jeff Hostetler. This isn't a bad thing nor a knock on Jeff...but it is what Jones is. I have longed for an opportunity to view other QBs within the same system and circumstance as Jones and finally now we have it. It cements the argument once and for all.
Jones, (I believe) will have success somewhere down the line in a VERY big spot but it will come as a backup thrust into the limelight. That isn't a bad thing. He's a good guy and he's a hard worker. He gave NY everything he had. Unfortunately he wasn't what many thought he was and never reached that ceiling. And that's ok.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 23, 2023, 05:47:14 PMTrue but most middle of the road qbs cost that much now so really just haggling over a few million. I was against Jones resigning the whole time, I thought we should have blown it up and started over but they didn't and thought Jones would at least keep in things while they built up the team. That's not the case so it just accelerates their clock.
Derek Carr signed a 4-year deal for $150, 60 guaranteed.
Jimmy G signed for 3 at 67.5.
Jones signed for 4 @ 160, 92 guaranteed. Significant amount that could have been used elsewhere.
Lots of holes to fill and that extra cash could have done that.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 23, 2023, 05:47:14 PMTrue but most middle of the road qbs cost that much now so really just haggling over a few million. I was against Jones resigning the whole time, I thought we should have blown it up and started over but they didn't and thought Jones would at least keep in things while they built up the team. That's not the case so it just accelerates their clock.
How could Schoen blow everything up after the first year? You can make the case that he should have used the franchise tag on Jones but that would have created problems elsewhere, i.e. Barkley. Going to the playoffs and winning a game in the long run hurt the team
Quote from: nb587 on November 23, 2023, 09:54:56 PMHow could Schoen blow everything up after the first year? You can make the case that he should have used the franchise tag on Jones but that would have created problems elsewhere, i.e. Barkley. Going to the playoffs and winning a game in the long run hurt the team
His mentor Beane did it in Buffalo his 1st year. Beane made it to the playoffs his first full year with Tyrod at Qb, it was technically his 2nd but he was hired after the draft. They made it to the playoffs and Beane went all in on the moves that ended up being Allen, by trading their number 1 offensive threat plus other pieces. So I was hoping Schoen would do the same and let Jones walk, and traded Barkley at the deadline last year but he did neither. Think of how better off we'd be right now with the draft capital from Barkley, plus never having signed Jones. We'd be in perfect position for our rebuild.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 24, 2023, 10:24:19 AMHis mentor Beane did it in Buffalo his 1st year. Beane made it to the playoffs his first full year with Tyrod at Qb, it was technically his 2nd but he was hired after the draft. They made it to the playoffs and Beane went all in on the moves that ended up being Allen, by trading their number 1 offensive threat plus other pieces. So I was hoping Schoen would do the same and let Jones walk, and traded Barkley at the deadline last year but he did neither. Think of how better off we'd be right now with the draft capital from Barkley, plus never having signed Jones. We'd be in perfect position for our rebuild.
How much draft capital do you think Barkley would have yielded?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 24, 2023, 12:17:17 PMHow much draft capital do you think Barkley would have yielded?
Last year at the deadline he was the best Rb in football. So probably a 2nd and a conditional 4th but you add that to the 1st and two 2nds we have this year and we have ammo plus we don't have Jones over our head.