Big Blue Huddle

A lot of these players are approaching 30. Out of the 23 I would try to sign eight.

Simmons (his market value is nowhere near that high)
Barkley (I'd offer no more than 8mm)
Jackson (he's still got a few years on him)
McKinney (he's a valuable knucklehead)
Bredeson (as a backup)
McCloud (unsung player)
Cam Brown (specials)
Carter Coughlin (good value as a backup and special teams player)

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/new-york-giants/

I am curious to hear opinions on this.  I think there will be some strong sentiment to let guys like Barkley and Adoree walk.  I think as fans that's easy to say, but not as easy for a GM and HC that are likely on the hot seat next year if the team doesn't improve. 

I think Adoree's replacement is more well defined at this point and the team is likely to draft another DB at some point in 2024. 

Barkley is still the best player on offense and I don't see how they would keep him for a price that would make sense at this point.  Of course, like I said above, the hot seat can cause decisions that we fans see as poor. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 01, 2023, 12:59:05 PMI am curious to hear opinions on this.  I think there will be some strong sentiment to let guys like Barkley and Adoree walk.  I think as fans that's easy to say, but not as easy for a GM and HC that are likely on the hot seat next year if the team doesn't improve. 

I think Adoree's replacement is more well defined at this point and the team is likely to draft another DB at some point in 2024. 

Barkley is still the best player on offense and I don't see how they would keep him for a price that would make sense at this point.  Of course, like I said above, the hot seat can cause decisions that we fans see as poor. 

Good post - I can also understand the reluctance of a GM/coach to let Barkley walk. With that said, overpaying for him would be foolish (IMO at least), but I think that's pretty well known now. He was frankly foolish himself to not take the offer Schoen gave him (I'm very glad he didn't), and now that decision will likely be pretty costly for him.

@Ed Vette : If you want Barkley but only want him for $8mm or less, that means you're not tagging him, right? Bc the tag would be for $12mm wouldn't it? Can he be tagged, then agree to an $8mm/yr contract, and then be untagged? That doesn't seem fair to the player if it denies him the opportunity to pursue a better deal in the open market. Is the suggestion to just not tag him and offer him $8mm AAV (with some guarantee) take it or leave it?

I don't really have any other significant quibbles or comments on Ed's list. I'm not sure I'd sign both Adoree AND McKinney though. I think one of those guys max, and I'd be somewhat price-sensitive.

I'm torn on Cam Brown in that he is a very good ST player but a complete knucklehead and a suspension waiting to happen. He causes a fumble on a big hit but then starts celebrating before the play has ended with a live ball within reach. Then earlier this season he came close to a taunting penalty.

Ed, re: your 8, with Leo now gone and not re-signing either Ward, A'shawn or Nunez-Roches, and with DJ Davidson having trouble staying healthy plus not showing a lot when he is, you're only returning Dex, DJ, and Riley to the DLine. Aside from Dex all I see is a lot of Q's and holes to fill via the draft and FA, because none of those returning or the listed FA's are showing much. The DLine is going to require a ton of resources - FA $$ and/or draft capital. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you just pointing out that JS and Dabbs have quite a conundrum to deal with along the DLine, as you know.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 01, 2023, 01:30:18 PMGood post - I can also understand the reluctance of a GM/coach to let Barkley walk. With that said, overpaying for him would be foolish (IMO at least), but I think that's pretty well known now. He was frankly foolish himself to not take the offer Schoen gave him (I'm very glad he didn't), and now that decision will likely be pretty costly for him.

@Ed Vette : If you want Barkley but only want him for $8mm or less, that means you're not tagging him, right? Bc the tag would be for $12mm wouldn't it? Can he be tagged, then agree to an $8mm/yr contract, and then be untagged? That doesn't seem fair to the player if it denies him the opportunity to pursue a better deal in the open market. Is the suggestion to just not tag him and offer him $8mm AAV (with some guarantee) take it or leave it?

I don't really have any other significant quibbles or comments on Ed's list. I'm not sure I'd sign both Adoree AND McKinney though. I think one of those guys max, and I'd be somewhat price-sensitive.

They can tag him but the market value for him is nowhere near that and as you know the RB Market right now is depressed. He really should have tried to sign with a top team that would have utilized him to his peak performance. Being on this team actually hurt his value. I'd pay him more just because he's the best player on that Offense and they need to keep him. He might take a 3-year deal to stay.

Since they didn't trade Barkley I guess the plan is to sign him. I don't really agree with it, but I'm at a point where I'm much more focused on the QB situation now, so as long as they don't blatantly overpay for him for emotional reasons, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.

I feel Barkley, while still clearly a good player, has already exhibited signs of decline though, I think he's injury-prone (I don't see how this is up for debate), and I think the next 2-3 seasons do not project to be anything like what he's done in the past. Personally, I'd rather just move on and replenish the position in the draft and spend that $7mm savings elsewhere, but I realize that's pretty unlikely to be what happens.

Quote from: Sem on December 01, 2023, 02:17:58 PMEd, re: your 8, with Leo now gone and not re-signing either Ward, A'shawn or Nunez-Roches, and with DJ Davidson having trouble staying healthy plus not showing a lot when he is, you're only returning Dex, DJ, and Riley to the DLine. Aside from Dex all I see is a lot of Q's and holes to fill via the draft and FA, because none of those returning or the listed FA's are showing much. The DLine is going to require a ton of resources - FA $$ and/or draft capital. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you just pointing out that JS and Dabbs have quite a conundrum to deal with along the DLine, as you know.

Yes, I did realize that. They will draft Defensive Line and there are better players in the FA Market. They could actually re-sign Leo as he's an FA but I would look to sign Chase Young or Romeo Okwara. They like Ward and will probably re-sign him but I think he can be replaced by Boogie Basham. Chris Jones is too expensive but maybe Reader. I would kick the tires on Clowney and Hankins. It's a huge FA Market and the Giants will have over $30MM in Cap Space.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/defensive-line//

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 01, 2023, 02:19:22 PMThey can tag him but the market value for him is nowhere near that and as you know the RB Market right now is depressed. He really should have tried to sign with a top team that would have utilized him to his peak performance. Being on this team actually hurt his value. I'd pay him more just because he's the best player on that Offense and they need to keep him. He might take a 3-year deal to stay.

I love that the guy wants to be a Giant and lead the team to the promised land.  But to your point, if I were him, I would have been trying to find a team that would allow me to showcase my talent more than one with a poor QB situation and worse OL situation.  Not sure who exactly that team is, but if he was on the Ravens or Bills for a year, he likely would have had some better stats to look at for his next contract. 

To your original post.  Its remarkable how indifferent I am about pretty much every guy listed.  If they sign some of these guys to fill roster spots I am ok with it for low salaries, but overall I would much rather see some attempts at upgrades, especially for the OL on the list.

What about Jihad Ward and Xavier McKinney?  Is XM gone to FA?

Ward has seemed like a good investment.

Quote from: Philosophers on December 01, 2023, 02:47:35 PMWhat about Jihad Ward and Xavier McKinney?  Is XM gone to FA?

Ward has seemed like a good investment.

Ward will only cost like 1.2 no clue on Mckinney maybe 3 yr 24?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 01, 2023, 04:30:00 PMWard will only cost like 1.2 no clue on Mckinney maybe 3 yr 24?

That's what Love asked for and got 3/$18million which sounds more reasonable.

The Giants are in a tough spot because they don't have a lot of really good players and can't afford to let those guys walk away for nothing. At the same time, they can't afford to pay great player money to good players.

I see 3 guys on that list that qualify as really good players. Adoree, Barkley, and McKinney. I would set a number for each and not budge from that number. If they can get more on the open market then let them go and see what you can do in free agency for replacements.

There are a few more guys on the list that might qualify as useful players. Definitely don't want to overpay for those guys like they did last year for guys like Slayton and Campbell. Bring them back if you can get them at a bargain. Schoen has to be disciplined in free agency. My two cents.

I'd be ok with Holmes for depth.  I know he's not popular as a starter though. 
   Adoree did not look good in slot,but is excellent at boundary. It depends on price and Hawkins development with Jackson. 

 I still say Simmons has a lot of value. I don't think Wink uses him to his full abilities. I would definitely find r oom for him on next years team.