Is the issue expectations?

[Painter]

When is that not the issue? When do we not make it so? We are here to cheer and jeer, praise and blame against the background of our expectations and very little else. How often must we prove it; more often than right now and every day?

It's not a fault, it's our nature. We are defined by our expectations and, for better or worse, more gently and accurately than does a label like fanatic.

Cheers!

[Stringer Bell]

Not at all.

The issues are:

Lack of preparedness
Lack of intensity
Abysmal play by the OL causing multiple failures across the offense
Non-existent pass rush
Failure to generate turnovers or make any big plays on defense

[Bob In PA]

So it's not like going into that playoff game there was a mystery teams had in beating the Giants who were not and still not this unbeatable force. 

Rambo: I disagree partly with that statement. IMO there WAS a bit of mystery/intrigue. In the playoffs both teams obviously try to use their very best schemes. The Eagles had 18 regular season and playoff games of film to watch before we played them the third time. Under those circumstances IMO it would be "football malpractice" for a team having the Giants on this year's schedule to fail to watch that game. Bob

Bob

[PSUBeirut]

For me- my expectations were falsely heightened with all of the glowing camp reports about the offense.  The reports of the OL doing better, Waller being a true #1 target, our WR depth coming on strong, DJ looking better and more confident, etc.  Before those reports I was expecting a true growth year for all involved (which is how it's looking) rather than the potential to make some noise (still possible...but less likely for sure). 

Just goes to show that training camp can be (and always seems to be) deceptive for the fans.

[RelaxTension]

For me- my expectations were falsely heightened with all of the glowing camp reports about the offense.  The reports of the OL doing better, Waller being a true #1 target, our WR depth coming on strong, DJ looking better and more confident, etc.  Before those reports I was expecting a true growth year for all involved (which is how it's looking) rather than the potential to make some noise (still possible...but less likely for sure). 

Just goes to show that training camp can be (and always seems to be) deceptive for the fans.

Going against this Giants defense with very little pass rush will be making a lot offenses look better then they should.
Add in the tackling issues and it's pretty ugly.

[DaveBrown74]

Just goes to show that training camp can be (and always seems to be) deceptive for the fans.

Agreed. This is the last time I've ever going to put any sort of serious stock in the preseason or any of the camp clickbait. All that matters is health. What you see on the field in real games in September doesn't correlate to the camp noise, plus all camp info comes from Giants beat reporters and Giants fans, so there is a natural bias there to always want to be positive. Might as well basically tune out completely in July and August.

[files58]

Yes,expectations are part of it. Another part is attitude. The attitude of the players. No one plays with the attitude of a LT, Ronnie Lott, Dick Butkus, Reggie White, Jack Lambert, Conrad Dobler. When Leonard Williams gets flagged for making a form tackle on Purdy you know the game has gone to hell. Want to stop the Eagle scrum play. Fine it's a first down, but Hurts comes out of the pile with fingers looking like the legs of a right triangle. Can you imagine the eventual result of the iggles trying that play a few times against the likes of the 85'Bears, 86' Giants, Steel Curtain, Doomsday? Ancient history you say. The human condition hasn't changed for many centuries. Football at it's core is a violent, collision sport. It is really our modern Roman Coliseum. No one plays with a f#$k you attitude. As Deion said years ago when he was doing NFL hilites "he made a business decision". I don't blame the players considering the owners really don't give two cowterds about them. Thank you for providing the space to rant.

[Bob In PA]

Agreed. This is the last time I've ever going to put any sort of serious stock in the preseason or any of the camp clickbait. All that matters is health. What you see on the field in real games in September doesn't correlate to the camp noise, plus all camp info comes from Giants beat reporters and Giants fans, so there is a natural bias there to always want to be positive. Might as well basically tune out completely in July and August.

DB: I don't think there's reason to ignore camp reports from "homers" because what camp shows is like investing in mutual funds. "Past performance is not guarantee of future results" lol. It's all relative to how you receive the news.  I tend to view camp and preseason games as showing what MIGHT happen in a perfect world. A team like the Giants is likely to look worse in real games because there is no scheming, no match-ups etc. during preseason and the Giants are still a work in progress with IMO inferior personnel over all compared to the majority of other teams. Bob

[Rambo89]

Rambo: I disagree partly with that statement. IMO there WAS a bit of mystery/intrigue. In the playoffs both teams obviously try to use their very best schemes. The Eagles had 18 regular season and playoff games of film to watch before we played them the third time. Under those circumstances IMO it would be "football malpractice" for a team having the Giants on this year's schedule to fail to watch that game. Bob

Bob

Not every team has the personnel that the Eagles do to play the Giants that way.  Dallas is a team that also beat the Giants twice last season. So I disagree that playoff game provided a blueprint when Dallas had their own that had worked against the Giants twice last season.

Agreed. This is the last time I've ever going to put any sort of serious stock in the preseason or any of the camp clickbait. All that matters is health. What you see on the field in real games in September doesn't correlate to the camp noise, plus all camp info comes from Giants beat reporters and Giants fans, so there is a natural bias there to always want to be positive. Might as well basically tune out completely in July and August.

Team's tend to play very bland generic schemes in the pre season where getting reps in is more important than actual results.  I never put much stock into pre season performances either good or bad.  Health and readiness for the regular season are the most important factors for me in the preseason.

[jgrangers2]

My expectations for the offense were never that high, but I've been disappointed in the defense. They've looked completely lost at times, tackling has been terrible and they still don't generate a pass rush pretty much at all. KT has been a big disappointment so far given how good he looked at times last year.

On the offense, they weren't that great last year and I was never sure they'd be that much better this year. I never listen to what's going on in Training Camp. Until you see it in a real game, it doesn't matter. We knew the O-line needed a big jump from Neal (he seems to have regressed) and the WR corps was always more quantity than quality. It's a bunch of NFL caliber guys, but no standout option and Waller was still a 31 year old TE who hadn't played a full year since 2020. In fairness, we've also played two of the best defenses in the league so far, which has probably made them look worse than they really are.

[uconnjack8]

Someone once told me, if you don't expect much you won't be disappointed. Not really a philosophy that I have ever been able to embrace. 

This team right now, there are a few things:

1)  There was hope/expectation that the OL would improve significantly this year.  So far after two games against top 5 (in the NFL, NOT NFC) front 7s, it doesn't look better.  The worst part of it is that they will face one of those defenses again and another top 5 front 7 twice (Philly if you are not sure).  Maybe those of us who had expected rather than hoped for the OL to be able to hold their own against a top defensive front are a victim or our expectations

2) The defense has been worse than most hoped/expected.  As mentioned above, its a young group.  I have been disappointed by the tackling, but I was expecting a certain amount of mental mistakes.  The IDL is still solid, but the groups around them seem to be inconsistent at best.  For me the key is whether the rookie CBs pan out.  If they do, there is a lot of potential with a guy like Dex up front.  And like the OL, this D faced two really solid offenses with good OLs in 2 of three outings.  And again they will also face one of them again and Philly with the best OL in the NFL twice. 

On the topic of defense I also wonder if the aggressive style needs to be reigned in some.  I get wanting to blitz on 3rd and 15 or 3rd and 13.  Of course when you have been blitzing all game and the offense expects it, they will run plays that will be short, quick and give them the opportunity to make one guy miss to get a 1st down.  Backing out of a blitz and playing zone here or there to create some element of surprise probably wouldn't hurt.

3) Getting behind every game.  Some of this goes back to what I just mentioned about the aggressive defensive style.  But the bigger issue IMO here is scoring a total of 6 first half points in 6 quarters of first half play.  I don't think my expectations are the issue here.  I don't think it's out of line to expect a touchdown or two in the first half of the first 3 games of the season.  Not sure what it is about this team, but they look completely overwhelmed in the 1st half of games.  How are the game plans that poor?  Or how are they being executed that poorly? 

[brownelvis54]

My issue is: NO Confidence. No Dogs on the team. And lastly guys wanting to get paid, but not producing on the field.

[Philosophers]

Definitely, though I disagree with the poster about the WR's that's a solid group that's deep.

Agree with both you guys with a couple of additional points.  First, I think there was too much made of our draft and how we'd get so much contribution from them in 2023.

Second, I think almost all of projected some players as developing upward so they'd be rising stars in 2023. Guys like Neal and Thibs.  Instead we are seeing regression.

If you add up the players from my first and second above, we probably thought we had 10 good players out of them and that has not transpired.  Hence a team with less talent than we thought.

[Bob In PA]

Not every team has the personnel that the Eagles do to play the Giants that way.

Rambo: IMO that's a very astute observation. But with enough time to prepare, you can execute the "basics" of what a certain team did against the Giants even though the talent on your team might be less at some positions than the team you're copying. Nevertheless, you're right, and that's one reason why NFL head coaches get paid so much money.  Decisions like that require in-depth knowledge of each of your own players and making a reasoned determination about what is possible... and what is asking too much.  Bob

[Painter]

You folks don't seem to get it, or maybe you don't want to because you think having expectations is somehow a bad thing when it is actually ineluctable, the very essence of what it means to be a fan.

It is a problem only if we choose to make it one which can happen when our expectations aren't met when after 3 games, it becomes a question of why haven't they?

Cheers!