Is it coaching or talent

[MightyGiants]

I know many are blaming the coaching for the team's failings.  Yet, to me I can't help but get this nagging suspicion that the team is lacking in talent.   This team can and does pull off victories against teams with lesser coaching staff, but when they face teams with competent coaching staff, then the team's lack of talent really shows.

[Giant Obsession]

Coaching.

For example name me the 4 starting DB's on our finest team ever, the 1986 Giants.

[Doc16LT56]

The issues to me are in this order:

1.QB
2.Talent (particularly OL)
3. Coaching

[T200]

It's both.

When defenders routinely miss tackles, that's not a talent issue. It's coaching.

When offensive linemen can't hold the point of attack against any of the other 31 teams, that's talent.

[uconnjack8]

Coaching.

For example name me the 4 starting DB's on our finest team ever, the 1986 Giants.

How does 1 position group being sort of nondescript in 86 lead to the conclusion that coaching is the issue this year?

Bet people can name a bit of the front 7 which had 2 HOFers including the best player at his position in the history of the NFL.  Outside of Dexter Lawrence, which player from the 2023 front 7 would start on the 86 team?

[Doc16LT56]

When defenders routinely miss tackles, that's not a talent issue. It's coaching.

To me this is a culture issue which is partly a coaching issue but when you're on your 5th HC with the same culture issues it becomes obvious that it's the organization more than the coaching.

[katkavage]

To me this is a culture issue which is partly a coaching issue but when you're on your 5th HC with the same culture issues it becomes obvious that it's the organization more than the coaching.

The culture issue is really the owner. His "culture" has killed this team for the last decade.

[T200]

To me this is a culture issue which is partly a coaching issue but when you're on your 5th HC with the same culture issues it becomes obvious that it's the organization more than the coaching.

I don't think we'd have these lack of tackling problems if we had a defensive-minded coach. Defenders want the highlight hit instead of the highlight tackle.

[Doc16LT56]

I don't think we'd have these lack of tackling problems if we had a defensive-minded coach. Defenders want the highlight hit instead of the highlight tackle.

I think the organization (someone mentioned Mara, which I agree with) prioritizes star power above winning. The players see it and respond to it.

[H-Town G-Fan]

I think coaching can mitigate some talent deficiencies. But it can't solve them and can only do so much. This team has far too many holes for Daboll and Co. to plug every leak. They are not immune from criticism, but they're still fighting (which is not insignificant given the challenges faced). More practically, I think Daboll is going to get a chance to prove himself with a QB he chooses rather than inherits (barring a complete Joe Judge-esque meltdown).

[T200]

I think coaching can mitigate some talent deficiencies. But it can't solve them and can only do so much. This team has far too many holes for Daboll and Co. to plug every leak. They are not immune from criticism, but they're still fighting (which is not insignificant given the challenges faced). More practically, I think Daboll is going to get a chance to prove himself with a QB he chooses rather than inherits (barring a complete Joe Judge-esque meltdown).

As painful as this season has been, I think it's only fair to give him another two years if he's allowed to pick his QB next draft. That's not to say he's done everything right. But he did have this team overachieve last season and that tells me that he has a good idea about how to coach. This season has tested him for sure but he's the best we've had since Coughlin.

[DaveBrown74]

I don't think coaching is irrelevant by any means, but it is much less important than the talent you have on the field. Is six time Super Bowl winner and HOF coach Bill Belichick all of a sudden a terrible head coach? Or does his roster suck?

Giants fans love to overrate the team's talent and blame coaches and coordinators for anything and everything that goes wrong. This has been going on forever. I suspect this is a subconscious defense mechanism against facing the painful truth that we have terrible players, as this is a much harder problem to fix than just angrily firing coaches, bringing in new ones, and then going through the same process two years later (as we have been doing for a while now).

I am not saying Daboll or the coordinators have done a great job this year or that they are in any way above scrutiny. But this team is bad primarily because of it's severe lack of talent, not because we don't have better coaching.

[nicky1000]

Schoen had to basically flip the whole roster. Clearly a talent issue. Last year we coached out and lucked into some wins we probably shouldn't have. I just don't think this is a HC issue but I do agree there needs to be better fluidity and talent in the assistant ranks. To me this is just the growing pains of a long rebuild. We are paying the piper for years of bad signings and drafting.

[files58]

Coaching.

For example name me the 4 starting DB's on our finest team ever, the 1986 Giants.

Mark Collins
Perry Williams
Terry Kinard, then Tom Flynn when Kinard got hurt
Kenny Hill
We had arguably one of the best LB corp ever, and a stout DL.

Coaches can only do so much, one needs talent.

[kartanoman]

Coaching.

For example name me the 4 starting DB's on our finest team ever, the 1986 Giants.

Perry Williams and Elvis Patterson were the corners with Kenny Hill and Herb Welch as the safeties.

Belichick could get away with them as a result of the finest front seven in Giants' history and one of the modest all-time.

Peace!