Best and worst supporting casts

[MightyGiants]

https://x.com/Ihartitz/status/1750260996311007353?s=20

[Stringer Bell]

To no one's surprise.

And it's why drafting a QB this year would be an absolute waste. The pool is just not that talented beyond the top 2, and they'd be playing alongside the worst supporting cast in the league.

Spend the next 2 years righting the ship, then be in a position to compete in 2026.

[Doc16LT56]

They spent the last two years righting the ship. It didn't work. If you can get one of the big-3 QBs, you go and get the QB.

[MightyGiants]

They spent the last two years righting the ship. It didn't work. If you can get one of the big-3 QBs, you go and get the QB.

I think the Jags and the Chargers are what you get when you just "go for a QB" when you lack the foundation of a solid team.  Maybe Harbough will turn the Chargers around, but there are not many coaches of his caliber available to teams.

Plus, I don't believe there is one of the 3 elite QB prospects available.  Why would a QB needy team trade away an elite QB prospect?

[Stringer Bell]

They spent the last two years righting the ship. It didn't work. If you can get one of the big-3 QBs, you go and get the QB.

I'm pretty sure that when your team ranks dead last in the league at supporting cast, the ship is not right.

[T200]

I'm pretty sure that when your team ranks dead last in the league at supporting cast, the ship is not right.

QB and all of the positions that fall into the "supporting cast" need an infusion of talent. We have multiple draft picks as well as money for free agents. More than one of those positions can be checked off the grocery list. None should be excluded.

[DaveBrown74]

I understand the logic around getting your ducks in order before bringing in a QB and getting proper value of the advantage of having him on a rookie contract. That's a great strategy in theory, but in theory only. The reality, which people like to omit when they lay this strategy out, is that you can't just decide to "go get a franchise QB" any old year you want. It doesn't work that way. If you build up the rest of your roster first, that's a great way to become the Andy Dalton Bengals or the Ryan Tannehill Titans. Now compared to the dreck we have now, that might not seem so bad, but if your goal is to actually win Super Bowls again someday, that is not an appealing strategy.

I would further add that a good, very good, or great QB is a 10 to 20 year investment. Obviously, it's great if you can take advantage of the period when he's on his rookie contract and potentially win a Super Bowl then, but if you were bad enough to have had a high enough pick to get said QB, that's going to be more easily said than done. It's doable, yes, but it's not easy nor is it something you can bank on. So if you have the opportunity to get someone like Drake Maye (and I'm not saying we do), unless you already have a QB you are very bullish on for the long term, I would argue you should do it. Again, it's a 15 or so year investment if you get it right. It's not do or die in the first 3-4 years.

And I understand that great QBs are not only found in the top 5 or top 10 of the draft. I get it. But I like to deal in probabilities rather than outliers when I think strategically, and it's pretty clear that your chances of getting an excellent QB in any given draft are much better if you're picking near the top of the first round than if you're picking in the middle or near the bottom. Yes, guys like Lamar Jackson and even Aaron Rodgers sometimes slip in the first round, and sure, we all know that Brady and Russell Wilson were taken long after the first round. But for every Brady, Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers there are hundreds of Desmond Ridders, Kenny Picketts, and Paxton Lynches. Again - I am dealing in the large, telltale samples of data, not the outliers.

I don't think we will take a QB this year, mainly because the big three won't be available to us and we are picking too high to take the fourth QB off the board sixth overall. We'll see if there is a trade opportunity and if the Giants would actually be game for it, but I doubt it. So in no way am I suggesting reaching for some middling QB with the sixth pick in the draft. Our previous GM did that, and we all know what the results have been. My point with this post is to just dispute the notion that you should pass up on drafting a QB prospect you're very high on simply because the rest of your team is not fully built up. I firmly disagree with that stance for all of the reasons laid out above.

[MightyGiants]

I understand the logic around getting your ducks in order before bringing in a QB and getting proper value of the advantage of having him on a rookie contract. That's a great strategy in theory, but in theory only. The reality, which people like to omit when they lay this strategy out, is that you can't just decide to "go get a franchise QB" any old year you want. It doesn't work that way. If you build up the rest of your roster first, that's a great way to become the Andy Dalton Bengals or the Ryan Tannehill Titans. Now compared to the dreck we have now, that might not seem so bad, but if your goal is to actually win Super Bowls again someday, that is not an appealing strategy.

I would further add that a good, very good, or great QB is a 10 to 20 year investment. Obviously, it's great if you can take advantage of the period when he's on his rookie contract and potentially win a Super Bowl then, but if you were bad enough to have had a high enough pick to get said QB, that's going to be more easily said than done. It's doable, yes, but it's not easy nor is it something you can bank on. So if you have the opportunity to get someone like Drake Maye (and I'm not saying we do), unless you already have a QB you are very bullish on for the long term, I would argue you should do it. Again, it's a 15 or so year investment if you get it right. It's not do or die in the first 3-4 years.

And I understand that great QBs are not only found in the top 5 or top 10 of the draft. I get it. But I like to deal in probabilities rather than outliers when I think strategically, and it's pretty clear that your chances of getting an excellent QB in any given draft are much better if you're picking near the top of the first round than if you're picking in the middle or near the bottom. Yes, guys like Lamar Jackson and even Aaron Rodgers sometimes slip in the first round, and sure, we all know that Brady and Russell Wilson were taken long after the first round. But for every Brady, Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers there are hundreds of Desmond Ridders, Kenny Picketts, and Paxton Lynches. Again - I am dealing in the large, telltale samples of data, not the outliers.

I don't think we will take a QB this year, mainly because the big three won't be available to us and we are picking too high to take the fourth QB off the board sixth overall. We'll see if there is a trade opportunity and if the Giants would actually be game for it, but I doubt it. So in no way am I suggesting reaching for some middling QB with the sixth pick in the draft. Our previous GM did that, and we all know what the results have been. My point with this post is to just dispute the notion that you should pass up on drafting a QB prospect you're very high on simply because the rest of your team is not fully built up. I firmly disagree with that stance for all of the reasons laid out above.

Of the 4 teams in the conference championship, three (49ers, Ravens, Chiefs) all had good teams before acquiring their QB.  Only the Lions had a poor team when they acquired Goff (a QB who had already developed).


Edit to add-  If you expand this out to the teams from last week.  3 (the Bucs, Packers, and Bills) had solid teams before acquiring their QB and only the Texans had a weak team before getting their QB (although they acquired talent and a good coach while acquiring their QB)

[DaveBrown74]

Of the 4 teams in the conference championship, three (49ers, Ravens, Chiefs) all had good teams before acquiring their QB.  Only the Lions had a poor team when they acquired Goff (a QB who had already developed).

I acknowledged that there are examples of good QBs who slip to the late first round and beyond in my post. Pinpointing a few of these examples does not automatically negate my point.

It's moot anyway. The Giants aren't drafting a first round QB this year. We'll take yet another O lineman or some other player and run it back again with Jones for his sixth year in the NFL. And like every other year we'll hear about how he is "carrying himself differently this year" during training camp, we'll get a few photos off twitter about how ripped he looks, we'll get excited about a single offensive series in a preseason game, we'll post about how crazy it is that Vegas has us a 5.5 or 6 win team, and then we can have this same conversation again a year from now when we're picking in the top 10 again. Rinse repeat.

[Doc16LT56]

I'm pretty sure that when your team ranks dead last in the league at supporting cast, the ship is not right.

They literally followed your advice two years ago and it's been a disaster for Schoen. You really think he would bet his job on passing on a potential franchise QB at this point because of a PFF article? Wait two years to have a shot at being competitive? No thanks.

[Doc16LT56]

The 49ers, Chiefs and Ravens are well run organizations. The Giants are a poorly run organization. Big difference.

[MightyGiants]

I acknowledged that there are examples of good QBs who slip to the late first round and beyond in my post. Pinpointing a few of these examples does not automatically negate my point.

It's moot anyway. The Giants aren't drafting a first round QB this year. We'll take yet another O lineman or some other player and run it back again with Jones for his sixth year in the NFL. And like every other year we'll hear about how he is "carrying himself differently this year" during training camp, we'll get a few photos off twitter about how ripped he looks, we'll get excited about a single offensive series in a preseason game, we'll post about how crazy it is that Vegas has us a 5.5 or 6 win team, and then we can have this same conversation again a year from now when we're picking in the top 10 again. Rinse repeat.

With the worst QB support in the league, perhaps you should expand your view to more than just the QB.

[EDjohnst1981]

I acknowledged that there are examples of good QBs who slip to the late first round and beyond in my post. Pinpointing a few of these examples does not automatically negate my point.

It's moot anyway. The Giants aren't drafting a first round QB this year. We'll take yet another O lineman or some other player and run it back again with Jones for his sixth year in the NFL. And like every other year we'll hear about how he is "carrying himself differently this year" during training camp, we'll get a few photos off twitter about how ripped he looks, we'll get excited about a single offensive series in a preseason game, we'll post about how crazy it is that Vegas has us a 5.5 or 6 win team, and then we can have this same conversation again a year from now when we're picking in the top 10 again. Rinse repeat.

Boom. This. Exactly this.

[DaveBrown74]

With the worst QB support in the league, perhaps you should expand your view to more than just the QB.

Where did I say all we need is a QB and nothing else?

[Stringer Bell]

They literally followed your advice two years ago and it's been a disaster for Schoen. You really think he would bet his job on passing on a potential franchise QB at this point because of a PFF article? Wait two years to have a shot at being competitive? No thanks.

. What franchise QB is going to be available at #6? None. Which QB is worth trading a ransom of picks for when the team has a million holes? None. So what's your plan?