Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: AZGiantFan on Today at 12:23:10 PMAnd yet with a better OL than the Giants provided to DJ at the beginning of the season, he was sacked 37 times and had a higher sack rates per drop back than Jones.  That doesn't sound very special to me.

I guess I'm wrong then but he certainly looked more aware of the backside rushers, where pressure was coming from, and when to escape the pocket and take what he could.  Why do you say the line was better? Based on availability?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 07, 2024, 10:09:18 PMI like his pocket presence significantly more than Devitos.

DeVito's pocket awareness is very good, I might even say special. Rourke must really be something. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 08, 2024, 07:52:52 AMThe Giants had that high-risk option with the 3 QBs they passed on in this draft.

Sure, but they weren't ready for reasons that made sense to them.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 05, 2024, 02:30:37 PMMy best guess-  Jones needs to do what he did in 2022, lead the team to a record that makes it difficult to impossible to draft his replacement

This is the most likely scenario that supports Jones remaining in place. He needs to do just enough to keep drafting a blue chip replacement out of reach leaving the Giants' only other option being replacing him with a long in the tooth has been/never was retread. I suppose the Giants could capture lightning in a bottle with a high risk draft pick in the mid to late first round.

Victor Cruz
Jake Ballard

I guess this isn't a Tommy Devito thread any longer. 

Quote from: kingm56 on May 04, 2024, 06:31:52 AMDid you bother researching your own question? Clearly not...
 
Without Question, Eli's best season was 2011, the only year he received All-Pro votes, was a Pro Bowler, and won a SB.  That year, PFF ranked the NYG Giants Oline #31 (#32 pass protection).  His running game was dead-last...he and JPP carried that team to the playoffs.
 
Here's the exert from PFF:

Yes, they won the Super Bowl, but they did so in spite of a line that sieved pressure throughout the year. Our lowest-ranked pass protecting line had problems all over, but nowhere as bad as at the tackle positions (especially once Will Beatty was lost for the year). It wasn't just the tackles however, with every member of the Giants' line earning a negative grade. This explains the drop-off in the run game and makes the season that Eli Manning had all the more remarkable.

Best Player: Before his season was cut short, Will Beatty (-1.2) was having a good first year starting ... outside of Trent Cole showing him what for in Week 11.

Worst Player: It's hard to look past David Diehl (-48.1) who was terrible at guard, and even worse at tackle. His on field performance is simply unacceptable, giving up a ridiculous nine sacks, eight hits and 48 hurries during the regular season.


It's complete myth that Tom Brady enjoyed top-tier protection throughout his career.  In 2014, 15 and 16, the online was bad.  During that span, Brady continued to play at an AP/MVP level, winning more SBs.
 

Here's an exert:
2014:
23. New England Patriots

Pass Blocking Ranking: 31st, Run Blocking Ranking: 8th, Penalties Ranking: 19th

Stud: Our second-team All-Pro right tackle Sebastian Vollmer had himself another good year and avoided the injury bug for a change. Bonus.

Dud: The 306 snaps that Jordan Devey managed were brutal to watch at times. Not much of a pass blocker, he didn't exactly light it up in the run game either.

Breakdown: Nate Solder had a bad year by his standards and the interior gave up way too much pressure. They did bloody some rookies, but this group appeared a unit in transition, with the team trying to patch up something just good enough to not harm their skill players too much.

2015:
25. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS
Pass-blocking rank: 31st

Run-blocking rank: 12th

Penalties rank: 15th

Stud: Far from perfect, but Josh Kline looked the part when he got on the field.

Dud: Pick your poison here. None were truly atrocious, but most were well below average. None more so than Cameron Fleming, who allowed way too much pressure.

Summary: The good news is that, where they struggle (pass protection), they have a quarterback good enough to overcome it. But it was still so bad that you wonder how much easier (and better) life for Tom Brady could have been with better protection.
 
"I think we've established how atrocious the New England Patriots offensive line performed in 2015. Almost every single player to suit up on the line was hurt for some extended period of time, and the team had to rely on a series of young, inexperienced, and hurt players to protect the best player in the NFL."

According to Pro Football Focus, the Patriots offensive line ranked 31st in the league in pass protection, ahead of only the San Diego Chargers.
 
Key Takeaways:
1. Both the 2015 Pats and 2011 Giants won SBs with PFFs 31st and 32 ranked pass blocking olines
2. Prime Eli Manning was absolutely capable, and DID, overcome terrible oline play
3. Tom Brady was an MFP/AP/SP Winner regardless of his protection.

I could provide a lot more data points, but I know your mind is made up and no amount of objective or subjective data will change it.  Regardless, your statement regarding Eli and Brady reliance on the oline has objectively been proven false. 

Don't forget also that in 2011 Victor Cruz exploded onto the scene from nowhere. Defenses had no answer for Cruz, Nicks, and Manningham and had to pick thier poison. Meanwhile Jake Ballard developed a penchant for the amazing clutch catch. 

So I'd say Manning, JPP, and Cruz carried the Giants to the playoffs. 

I've shared this before. Pretty great read. 

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2016/08/07/wilderness-years-new-york-giants-1964-1978/

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 03, 2024, 11:21:09 AMAnd both times the Giants beat Brady-led teams in the SB they did it by breaking down his OL.

A-Gap pressure is the great equalizer.

I don't believe in this "single pillar theory" that has become so prevalent in current football narrative. It really took hold once Brady left the Patriots. 

Quote from: babywhales on May 03, 2024, 09:37:53 AMConspiracy theories are a sign of the times.

I do not think Mara directs the board.  Sign off on a 1st round pick or big ticket FA is not the same as steering the ship toward one

I think the majority of folks on this board agree with you Chris but there is undoubtedly a vocal minority that do not.

Much of the early criticism of Dave Gettleman was that he basically was a front man hired to do the bidding of the Maras.

For example:

"We aren't replacing Eli Manning. Build a team around him. Draft Saquon Barkley."

"We aren't replacing Daniel Jones. Build a team around him."

"We aren't trading Saquon Barkley. Pay the man."

Many suggested that if such ultimatums were issued at the time of Gettleman's hiring, he should have simply refused the job.

I see a lot of folks STILL insist that directives come from John or Chris Mara concerning Daniel Jones' future.

If Gettleman really should have refused the position based on Mara meddling, should the same criticism not apply to Joe Schoen? Do we really believe that Jones is still here because he is the pet of team ownership? Is Joe Schoen really bending to the will of John & Chris Mara? Is Mara Meddling really as big a thing as it's made out to be?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 03, 2024, 08:20:08 AMI guess we are just ignoring that Devito got benched last year lol.

Plenty of hall of fame quarterbacks have been benched. What matters is how he responds. 

I'm not upset. I didn't think Drake Maye was worth what the Patriots were asking. We won that one.

JJ McCarthy? Yeah I probably would have pulled the trigger, but I'm not hard enough over to be upset about the direction the team is taking. In three years I may feel differently. I'll trust Joe Schoen until I don't. 

I think the team moto has gone from "All In" to "No More Excuses."

Quote from: WheresDayne on May 03, 2024, 07:26:43 AMIs this entire thread a satire?   

The world will never know. Good old BluesCruz...the Andy Kaufman of BBH.