Out of the top 4 QBs, who is the one you would NOT like the Giants to draft?
I know there has been a big difference of opinion here. I am not a college guy so all I know about any of these guys is what I read here and acknowledge the wealth of info I receive from all the posters.
So who would you not want the Giants to draft out of the top 4 guys?
Drake Maye and it's an easy answer for me. I think Williams and Daniels are the top QBs followed by JJ though he isn't on their level. And then the rest of them get lumped in. I just don't see much difference between Maye and guys like Penix and Nix and maybe even Rattler as far as NFL prospects go. Maybe he impresses in the meetings or in the class room but on the field I'm not seeing top 5 pick.
Probably McCarthy for me, but I could be wrong. I'm not down on McCarthy but I really like the ceilings of the other three.
Caleb Williams
McCarthy, but I think the real big four is Williams, Daniels, McCarthy and Nix. Maye has serious flaws that are going to take a while to fix. He's much closer to Baker Mayfield than he is to CJ Stroud.
Caleb Williams
Drake Maye
Caleb Williams- Diva combined with helicopter dad has disaster written all over it, no matter how much talent he has
Jayden Daniels- We are trying to move on from an injury-prone QB, and I think Daniels is going to be injured often and seriously in the NFL. He was 210 at his Pro Day after refusing to be weighed at the Combine; I suspect his real weight is closer to 200 (maybe less). Worse, not only is he light, he has a reckless running style that allows defenders to hit him hard. He got away with that in college, but NFL players are bigger and faster.
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 07:16:17 AMCaleb Williams- Diva combined with helicopter dad has disaster written all over it, no matter how much talent he has
Jayden Daniels- We are trying to move on from an injury-prone QB, and I think Daniels is going to be injured often and seriously in the NFL. He was 210 at his Pro Day after refusing to be weighed at the Combine; I suspect his real weight is closer to 200 (maybe less). Worse, not only is he light, he has a reckless running style that allows defenders to hit him hard. He got away with that in college, but NFL players are bigger and faster.
You might be right, you might be wrong. Despite his size, Jones's running style is abysmal. So size doesn't matter if you don't know how to slide and protect your body. I don't know enough about Daniels to say if he does or doesn't have a good running style. That he hasn't been injured, even in big time college play, is a good sign and doesn't mean he will get pummeled in the NFL.
Quote from: katkavage on March 29, 2024, 07:32:35 AMYou might be right, you might be wrong. Despite his size, Jones's running style is abysmal. So size doesn't matter if you don't know how to slide and protect your body. I don't know enough about Daniels to say if he does or doesn't have a good running style. That he hasn't been injured, even in big time college play, is a good sign and doesn't mean he will get pummeled in the NFL.
Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 28, 2024, 09:51:08 PMProbably McCarthy for me, but I could be wrong. I'm not down on McCarthy but I really like the ceilings of the other three.
Why wouldn't you think that the youngest quarterback who has improved each of his college seasons doesn't have a high ceiling?
I never thought about Daniels and his running style and size versus getting injured. He runs with an attitude of he will beat you or fake you. Wr need longevity out of our QB
Quote from: Philosophers on March 29, 2024, 09:22:31 AMI never thought about Daniels and his running style and size versus getting injured. He runs with an attitude of he will beat you or fake you. Wr need longevity out of our QB
A lot of the same things were said about Lamar Jackson when he was coming out. Too slight of a build, too much running, going to be injured all the time, not accurate. etc. And what happened was Lamar was just the best athlete on the field even at the NFL level and has won 2 MVP awards. I'd certainly take that from a Giants QB! Not saying Daniels is going to be as good as Lamar but I wouldn't write him off just based on that.
Quote from: Gmo11 on March 29, 2024, 09:49:14 AMA lot of the same things were said about Lamar Jackson when he was coming out. Too slight of a build, too much running, going to be injured all the time, not accurate. etc. And what happened was Lamar was just the best athlete on the field even at the NFL level and has won 2 MVP awards. I'd certainly take that from a Giants QB! Not saying Daniels is going to be as good as Lamar but I wouldn't write him off just based on that.
Jackon has been able to complete only one full season out of 6, and he didn't have the wreckless running style of Daniels.
Plus, with Jackson, do you measure your team's success by your quarterback's awards and stats or by the team's success in the playoffs?
It isn't really hard to emphasize telling a guy like Daniels that he should avoid big hits in the open field. I think it's really a non issue. I'd rather draft a guy who I can tell that he needs to slide earlier than he wants to than to draft a guy who can't escape the pocket in the first place. Then again all of the top five or six guys in the draft are athletic enough to escape an NFL pocket with regularity.
Quarterback- as it would be premature and, in most cases, too costly. More particularly, however, it's McCarthy for sure. As the Draft is at best a stochastic process, I can't really see McCarthy as providing a more favorable risk/reward than Daniel Jones given the lack of pass protecting/pass receiving support that still exists and which must be given top priority for improvement in this Draft and perhaps next year's as well.
Although, Quarterback is certainly the most important position on the team, success at the position is as much a matter of good fortune as it is the talent and ability of both the chooser and the chosen as was so even with the Chiefs and Mahomes. Not to mention that good fortune is not yet something we can attach to Our Heroes.
Of course, I will support whatever they do, happily or not. And by not, I mean in rationalizing rash or engaging in irrelevant comparisons.
Cheers!
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 07:50:15 AMWhy wouldn't you think that the youngest quarterback who has improved each of his college seasons doesn't have a high ceiling?
I didn't say McCarthy didn't have a high ceiling. I said I prefer the ceilings of the other three. That doesn't mean I'm down on McCarthy or his ceiling. We're talking about the top four QB prospects in one of the strongest QB prospect classes of the last couple of decades here.
FWIW I have Daniels bottom of my 4. He bulked up for pro-day but did not run/jump. He plays at/under 200. I think injuries will be inevitable in NFL. Also when you watch his tape the LSU receivers consistently have to throttle back on deep routes as he does not get the ball far enough fast enough. Their scheme had guys running wide open so it did not matter but with better coverage in NFL I think interceptions will result.
If Maye fell to 6 (or an affordable trade up to 4 or 5) and we had the chance to grab him to sit him/develop slowly he would be my choice.
Maye has every attribute you need but is less polished/well coached than rest of top 6. I am not comparing tools/style of play directly if I observe that he has a similar high ceiling and low floor scouting profile to Josh Allen. We often forget how much Allen divided opinion coming out. It could go either way as a pro for Maye but Daboll did OK with Allen so...
Quote from: MightyGiants on March 29, 2024, 10:01:09 AMJackon has been able to complete only one full season out of 6, and he didn't have the wreckless running style of Daniels.
Plus, with Jackson, do you measure your team's success by your quarterback's awards and stats or by the team's success in the playoffs?
I measure the success of a QB by his performance on the field. This wasn't a subject about how good the Ravens are. Lamar has been one of the best QBs in the league since he entered it. Daniels has a similar build and skill set. Does that mean he's going to be as good as Lamar, who is objectively great? No, of course not. But we also should write him off, as so many did Lamar, simply because he doesn't look like a typical QB looks. He's got off the charts athleticism and has improved every season. I'd be thrilled if the Giants were to somehow land him but unfortunately he seems pretty solidly slotted in as QB2 right now which means the Giants won't be able to get him.
Do we think we know who the top 4 are? I ask because the top 4 now were not the top four last month. It changed the month before that, and it changed again from the month before that.
I don't get the love for Drake Maye. He has all the tools but he isn't a guy who can carry a team. I you are looking for a guy with a live arm, scrambling/running ability who throws some WTF interceptions and could be the next Ryan Tannehill, he's your guy.
Caleb Williams looked great in 2023, and again to start 2024, then the back half of the season happened. Yes, those were better teams. However, throwing 1 TD or less in 5 of the last 7 games has raised some questions. I still think his best football is ahead of him. He is worth the #1 overall pick.
Bo Nix was the best QB in college football last year and nobody wants to talk about it because we all watched several years of so-so quarterbacking while we waited for him to become this player. He HAS matured and is the most NFL ready NFL QB in this draft mentally and physically. Has an NFL body today. If you want to spread the field with a QB who can make the right reads in a dink and dunk offense, adjust and scramble when the first read isn't available, and hit a guy downfield when you try to sneak someone over the top every now and then, he could be very, very good. I wish his release point was higher but I said that about Oregon Duck Justin Herbert too. At 6'4" Herbert can get away with it. The 6'2" Nix may have some work to do, but he is a steal in Round 2.
Jaden Daniels is amazing but still raw and didn't shine throwing the ball against good teams, using his legs instead to move the ball. That's what COLLEGE QBs do and very few have had much success doing that at the next level. He has good height but he is not big and threw to two incredible receivers last year which would make almost any QB look good. The next Justin Fields?
If five years in college helped Bo Nix mature, it resulted in an advanced degree for Michael Pennix who played parts of six seasons. In my opinion he has the best arm of the top QBs in the draft (Joe Milton's arm is the best of all) but needs to work on his footwork and reads to bring down those interceptions and raise his completion percentage. After the knee injury in Indiana he didn't move out of the pocket as much but seemed to be regaining some mobility toward the end of last year. He's one of those guys who could win a preseason competition for the QB position or be a backup for a decade because everyone just loves watching him throw the ball, but he does need some work. He could be a very nice find early in Round 2 for someone. Geno Smith type skills and potential at this point.
JJ McCarthy has become the darling of this draft. He's the Daniel Jones of 2024. Looks great, but what has he really done? He didn't make many mistakes but to my eyes rode a stout Defense and impressive running game to the national championship. Decent height, below average size, below average arm, only one pass over 50 yards last year. Does that sound like anything more than a game manager to you?
Quote from: Painter on March 29, 2024, 11:23:48 AMQuarterback- as it would be premature and, in most cases, too costly. More particularly, however, it's McCarthy
Larry: Nice post. Like you, I'll be hopeful (and maybe even thrilled) if they DO take a QB with Pick Six, because it will mean people who's lives are pro football (and who stand to get fired if they're wrong) truly believe in the guy they picked, which can't hurt for a team not known for fielding a dominant (or even good) offense. Bob