Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult.  I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made.  To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality 

Funny thing is, some here were lauding Tommy DeVito's pocket presence and how much better it was than DJ's, yet despite the fact that the Oline was better when he was playing due to improved personnel (Thomas and Pugh) he had a higher sack percent than DJ.  And no one said a word about any of those sacks being his fault.

Quote from: Trench on Today at 04:09:47 PMWell it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth

I apologize for overestimating your perceptiveness.  I'll go sit in the corner.

Quote from: kingm56 on Today at 02:03:27 PMTim,
Can I ask you a few questions, which I hope will better articulate my point?

1. Do yo believe the Giants have an extensive marketing department?
2. Do you believe the Giants conducted research pertaining to the players the fanbase was most excited about, which coupled with thier internal data (e.g. jersey sales, media request, etc) allowed them to glean who thier most marketable players are?
3. If you believe 2 occurred, isn't it logic to place the players that polled/rated the highest on the marquee?

From my perspective, I just have a hard time believing a multi-billion dollar organization randomly chose three players to promote without doing extensive research.   

Well, that same marketing department thought it was a good idea to give fans a soda for fan appreciation day, so there's that.

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 01:57:36 PMWhen y'all are crying because they didnt draft a QB, Ill be there to provide comfort and shelter from the storm.

You'd be very hard-pressed to find me taking any exception to drafting or not drafting a QB.  I never took a position.

But I apologize for continuing to bring facts, context, and perspective into the discussion.

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 01:55:04 PMAnd the beat goes on...

And it will continue to go on until the Giants demonstrate that they can field a decent (i.e., not top ten, but is hoping for not bottom ten too much to ask?) offensive line.

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 07:34:39 AMJackson can throw the ball downfield while scrambling and running or from the pocket and not get hurt to the point of losing a massive amount of time. 

Torn ACL, and several neck injuries have resulted in him not protecting himself by sliding or giving himself up. Not being available for 21 games out of 81 or 26%. All of his injuries are not from poor protection but poor judgment, stubbornness and too dumb to learn how to slide. 

That's a lot easier to do when you are playing behind a very good OL and not an historically bad OL.

https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/offensive-line-rankings-and-tiers-end-of-nfl-season-review-2024-offensive-line-outlook/

Quote from: uconnjack8 on Today at 07:21:50 AMI for one am shocked that this OL which yielded a historic # of sacks last year is rated the worst in preseason.

Hopefully the FAs they added can bring enough to the table to help bring this group to at least middle of the road.

I'm shocked too, in the same sense that Police Captain Louis Renault was shocked that there was gambling going on at Rick's in Casablanca.

The key word in your 2nd para is "Hopefully" as there seems to be a lot of hope triumphing over experience.

Quote from: Trench on Today at 12:19:36 AMCan you please point out where any of that it says "it is ALL on Jones"??

If not, please don't put words in people's mouths. There is not a fan on this forum who believes everything is Jones fault.

Geez, it's called hyperbole.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 07:47:22 PMLet's see how he does this year in the pocket.

Let's see how long he has in the pocket before he has to start running for his life.

1st 2 games could be against rookie QBs.

Quote from: londonblue on May 14, 2024, 03:36:33 PMUnder the current NFL rules the only real opportunity to set tempo and intensity on the field is in training camp and even that is greatly reduced from past eras.

What you can do in rookie camp and mini camp is establish tempo and intensity off the field, by demanding and enforcing that they be on time & attentive to meetings, learn the playbook and push hard in the gym/meet physical targets.

We cannot really see if it is American or Asian Mom until training camp but if they arrive at training camp looking confused and operating at walking pace again it will raise questions about what went before.

It is the fact that the opportunity to set the tone and intensity is so reduced that what opportunity is there needs to be addressed with a sense of urgency.  I don't think we saw that last year.  My hope is that it changes this year.  But the early signs from rookie camp don't give me the warm fuzzies.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 14, 2024, 04:15:42 PMA comment that Jones "stinks" does not equate to putting all the blame on him for the Giants' shortcomings.

What does it mean when he gets blamed for many of the sacks the OL subjects him to, but when a back-up behind a better OL is sacked at an even higher rate we are told that the back-up has better pocket sense?  What does it mean when the woes of the defense are the fault of all the 3 and outs he has, when in actuality the TOP is virtually 50-50?  The fact is that there are posters who have tried to place virtually every team failing at DJ's feet.

Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 10:31:50 AMPFF = Click bait

It's not just PFF.  You'd be hard pressed to find a projected 2024 ranking of o-lines that doesn't have the Giants in the bottom 5.  I've looked.

Quote from: Painter on May 14, 2024, 10:47:41 AMA savvy analysis and questioning, Ed. In any event, we should expect to see a different approach to Defense from Shane Bowen who, while more Zone-orientated on the back end, has had much more success against the run than did Wink. Still, as you suggest, it can be as much a question of personnel as of positioning.

It may be a while before we get an answer in that regard, but it will still be time better spent wondering about Burns and Thibodeaux than it is for those among us who seem unable to stop hating on Daniel Jones.

Cheers!

 

My question is will his defense do a much better job of stopping the run.  As horrifically bad as the o-line was in 2023 the run defense wasn't much better.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 10:56:25 AMMaybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything?   

It's not a question of capitulation.  I'm not even a big Jones supporter.  What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses.  There is a difference between excuses and explanations.