Big Blue Huddle

Why is everyone so obsessed with trading Slayton?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on Today at 12:00:41 AMWhether you like it or not, they have Gray from last year's draft and signed Devin Singletary. It's a low draft value position and they--at least in their minds--have it filled barring some unforeseen circumstance. Also, if this re-build is longer than one offseason (which it assuredly is), there is next year's draft. Yes, 2024 may be painful... but was there a way to fix that in one draft cycle? I'm not positive that spending a premium pick on a RB would have accomplished a legitimate goal.

We will get to see how valuable the running back position is this season. I have no confidence in our backfield right now. I wasn't a big fan even before Barkley left.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on Today at 08:53:26 AMYes it's amazing they put how prospects receive television signals in a scouting report.  Definitely a red flag he doesnt use streaming.

Lol. Yeah I'm not sure what that means. 

Quote from: madbadger on Today at 08:46:42 AMNo thank you. Runs too soft, is always banged up and has rabbit ears. Not a good fit.

Rabbit ears?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on Today at 08:24:50 AMHard to say.

I don't think Jones will be the QB for the next two years, first of all. It's not impossible, but my base case is he will be gone after this year. Even if he plays like he played in 2022, which I know some here think was really good, I think they will be looking to go in a different direction after the season is over. He'll have to play multiple cuts better than he has ever played before to stay in my opinion.

Of course, if the team is something like 9-8 this year (I am not at all saying they will be, just if), then they'll be in a tough position to draft a QB. They'll be looking at picking up the scraps outside of the top 10, or giving up multiple future first rounders to move up in what figures to be a weaker class than this year. So there is that issue too.

One thing I know for sure is that if they didn't want to preserve the option of cutting Jones after 2024, they would have restructured his contract to not have to absorb a $47mm hit this year. So unless they suddenly do that (I don't know what the deadline is), we know that they're not all-in on him as far as the long term goes. We also pretty much know that they tried to move up to three and weren't able to. All the reliable sources like Rapaport have stated that as basically fact.

So as far as Daboll and Schoen go, I think if they move on from Jones after 2024, they're not going to be in a position where they're expected to suddenly contend with a rookie QB. I guess if this season is a total catastrophe Mara could just clean house, as we have seen him do before, but I think that is far from being base case.

I don't see Mara cleaning house no matter how bad the record is unless it's accompanied by a media meltdown and a lot of dirty laundry.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on Today at 07:35:37 AMIf they are treading water for the next 2 years, do you think Daboll is still around for the new QB?

That's a damn good question and I almost included it in my comment. I'd have to say yes because Schoen is just as culpable. But I never know what John and Chris Mara are thinking despite all the presumption that surrounds them. 

Braelon Allen is still available I think.

Quote from: StompYouOT on April 26, 2024, 10:30:10 PMYessir.  I don't think we hear too many excuses next year when Jones doesn't come through.  I just wonder how and when we will find that guy if next year's draft class is subpar?  This draft looks like solid work by Schoen and Daboll along with the Jax trade.  Slowly but surely we might get to being a "QB away" type team.

I believe we may be looking to the 2026 draft and will tread water until then.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on April 26, 2024, 11:41:51 AMYet he led the league in tight window throws for like two years under Coach Shurm and had no issues throwing down the field.

No QB is playing confidently behind an OL that gives up 85 sacks. That's like historic level of stink

He was drafted to play in Pat Shurmur's offense. Shurmer is gone.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 26, 2024, 11:37:40 AMHe does not naturally downfield like some throwers and see a typical NFL tight window and throws it there.  Instead he bails and throws a much shorter outlet pass.  He needs to be bolder mentally.  I think he is plenty accurate to make those throws.

The question is, is Jones shell-shocked from being hit, or is he is more worried about turning the ball over?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 26, 2024, 07:59:02 AMThe 1,000 yards and 12 tds difference is pretty significant. My problem isn't with Jones physically as he has the tools, I just see someone that can't mentally get over the hurdle of an offense that he's asked to do very little In. He can't read the field like he needs to or process things like he should for a Qb going into year 6.

In today's game you need a 4,000 yard 20td + qb to be relevant and we just don't have that currently.

Forget about the statistics, the reading of defenses, going through progressions, looking off safeties, and passing accuracy.

The number one thing that drives me insane about Daniel Jones is his lack of vision in the pocket when things get messy. He doesn't know where his blockers are and he certainly doesn't know where the rushers are. If the backside rusher makes contact with him he is almost always surprised and this results in a turnover far too often. He's got to get better at knowing without looking. For all the comedy surrounding Devito, watch how well he positions himself inside the pocket and only takes off at the absolutely correct time to abandon it. It's really his best ability.

Jones looks like an athlete "trying" to play quarterback. He doesn't just need better protection. He needs late 70s Raiders-early 80s Skins-early 90s Cowboys level of pass blocking.

But hey, hope springs eternal.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:37:11 AMIf you value Super Bowls, how about the trophies won by the Bucs (Brady), Rams (Stafford), and the Broncos (Manning) none of whom acquired their QB via the draft (even)?

I guess, if you're fine with all-in one shots. I thought we were trying to build sometime sustainable. I mean, there are at least many examples, and probably a lot more, of teams that brought in a high profile quarterback who was getting long in the tooth and it didn't work out. Either the guy got injured or something else broke down...and then the team succumbed to cap issues and the whole thing desolved.

I'll bow out now.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 26, 2024, 10:24:24 AMEven if you don't think DJ is the guy, I don't see why drafting a worthy WR at 6 is something to fret over. 

I get people want a different QB.  Truly elite QBs are rare, so if we assume the Giants upgrade DJ with a QB who is not in that category, they will need top tier talent around him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:19:47 AMOn the other side of that coin you have teams like the Eagles, 49ers, and the Cowboys who parlayed talented rosters and QB support into finding their franchise QBs in rounds other than the first one.

2 superbowl appearances, 0 superbowl wins. Cowboys own us, but they are still kind of a hot mess. I mean, now we're back to the "can you find a franchise quarterback somewhere else besides the top 10" discussion, which is usually good for 10 pages or more. The truth is sure you can, but the odds are significantly against you. Almost like catching lightning in a bottle. I don't think most teams really even go after later round quarterbacks with a plan to make him the starter. Usually he's drafted as a backup and the stater gets injured and the backup siezes the opportunity. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:03:18 AMMore like those that are happy, appreciate and understand that quarterbacks need support to develop and even just to function and here is what neutral Athletic writer ranked the Giants support system


6. New York Giants
Pass blocking: F
Run game: C
Weapons: D (potential F)
Play-caller: B
Defense: C

The Giants have Daniel Jones signed for another two seasons but there is buzz that they might make a move in the draft to get one of the top four quarterbacks. The biggest draw New York has is that head coach Brian Daboll and offensive coordinator Mike Kafka have shown they can piece together an offense with toothpicks and paperclips. The Giants surprised the league in 2022, finishing 10th in offensive DVOA, but their lack of overall talent especially on their offensive line caught up to them last season. Andrew Thomas is one of the best left tackles in the league but he can only block one rusher at a time. Jones missed significant time and the Giants finished 30th in offensive DVOA. The Giants' weapons cache is the worst in the league.

If you want to keep drafting QBs just to watch them crash and burn, ala the Jets, by all means let us not get any receiving weapons.

https://theathletic.com/5421402/2024/04/19/2024-nfl-draft-ranking-qb-friendliness/

The only flaw in this reasoning is the assumption that when your team is ready, you just dial 1-800-quarterback and get one. Usually the opportunity to get one doesn't present at the perfect time. That's why middle of the road teams end up with guys like Elvis Grbac, Brad Johnson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kirk Cousins, and washed up Brett Favre. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on April 26, 2024, 09:17:50 AMIf the goal is to win 8 games instead of the usual 5 or 6 then yes this is a great situation. And Jones can do that with all these playmakers around him carrying the load.

If the goal is to win multiple playoff games and/or a super bowl they're going to need a better QB and they'll need him quick before Nabers becomes very expensive.

Perhaps we can win just enough games to put drafting a franchise quarterback out of reach?