Big Blue Huddle

Every team today is a world beater. Let's talk in September.

Quote from: Ed Vette on Today at 10:34:47 AMYou're missing the point when you think this is all about Daniel Jones. This is about a diatribe attack by former high-profile player and the voice of the NYG's radio game announcer against the fan base to voice their displeasure over fan's comments about one player. A player who has not made a difference in 5 seasons. No diatribe when fans wanted to tank the season. No diatribe with all the shots at Evan Neal. Etc...

This is a very transparent effort to get fans behind the decision not to draft a QB. It's not only damage control, it's not good business to attack the customers. I won't bore any of you with ridiculous attempts at comparisons. You can make them yourselves.

This is a conservative organization that has accepted mediocrity and bad teams by giving parameters to their GM's, and placating the fan base by burning through 6 head Coaches including Spags. While never doing a proper rebuild. Here are the plain facts:

The team over the last 10 years has a 37% winning percentage. Just wrap your head around that for a minute. the record is 67-111-1. The point differential over that span is a minus -782 points. 8 of those 10 years the team finished 3rd or 4th in a 4-team Division. That's 80% a bottom-half finish against three other teams. POW!

After all that, the expectation from at least the fans here is that we are looking at 6-7 win season in the third year of Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll. So what happens next? Wash, rinse, and repeat. The day Tom Coughlin walked off that podium in a farce retirement after being thrown under the bus, was the day this Franchise went downhill. Now that deserved a resounding diatribe.

Something seriously is wrong with this organization folks.

What he said.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 08:29:53 AMThat's the thing, Kat, you really can't.   When you tally up the posts, there are far more negative posts than positive posts.  If you really study the dynamics, much of what could be perceived as positive post about Jones are usually posts responding to criticism.   Hell, even my mini-rant was nuanced.  I didn't say it was wrong to have a negative view (which stands in stark contrast to the accusations of "making excuses").  I didn't even say that Jones will prove to be a franchise QB (which, again, stands in stark contrast to critics who claim Jones will never be a franchise QB). 

The "both sides do it" argument is just a way to defend that which really can't be defended, in my opinion.

That's your perspective,MG. Mine is different. The detractors knock DJ to the extreme, the defenders gloss over or make countless excuses. Both are wrong. There is a middle ground. You just don't choose to acknowledge it.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 07:41:07 AMI think the frustration that Bob and Carl expressed has more to do with how fans go overboard in their criticism of Daniel Jones, rather than their opinion of Daniel Jones.  We have seen that sort of thing here.  A post is made about the Giants having the worst offensive line, and you get posts about how people are making excuses for Daniel Jones.   People here will cherry-pick facts and spend an inordinate amount of time curating facts about other QBs just to criticize or put Daniel Jones down.  Hell, we have even seen posts mocking his facial expression or posts about bleaching one's eyes because you read DJ will be the starting QB.

I have seen game threads that were filled with "Jones' throw was poor," "Jones held on to the ball too long," and "Jones missed the open man." I have even seen Jones blamed for offensive linemen jumping early.   Then Jones throws a TD and you get crickets or a nice catch (by the receiver Jones throws to) or on occasion a begrudging "good throw" (this is the rare thing).

Jones isn't the only target.  People who don't share the strong negative views on Jones are accused of "making excuses" if they dare to consider the terrible situation Jones has dealt with since entering the NFL.   I have seen people accuse those people of undergoing mental gymnastics to defend Jones.

Someone mentioned Evan Neal.   Evan Neal, by any objective standard, has been far worse (considering his draft position) than Daniel Jones, but it's rare to see people putting the man down.  Most are still hoping he will do better, or they have given up on him, but he isn't injected into every conversation.  People are not scouring the league to find other OTs to compare Neal to so they can show how much worse Neal is in comparison.  All of that is a unique situation of Daniel Jones.

So, I can understand Carl and Bob's frustration.   It's not like either of them are saying Jones is doing great.  Neither is suggesting that Jones needs to step up his game or even that Jones is the long term answer.  It's just that the amount of time and energy and the frequency DJ's critics put into putting the man down really gets tiring.  The man's performance needs improvement, but he is still the starting QB of the team we root for.   It's sort of hollow to talk about how one "I don't dislike the guy" if all you do at every opportunity is put the man down and work tirelessly to put him in the worst light possible.

Daniel Jones is a good man who works his ass off for the team.  Even if you don't think highly of him, at least give the man the benefit of the doubt and try to be supportive.  I have always said about fan boards that no one will ever fault you for saying positive things about the team (unless that positive is directed at Daniel Jones).  When it comes to criticism, think about cooking with strong spices, a little goes a long way.

Works both ways, MG. The defenders and the detractors. That is why it has remained a hot topic. Banks can call out the defenders as easily as the detractors. Both are guilty here but he chooses the latter group to call goofy.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 17, 2024, 04:44:45 PMI personally think they got Lock because they wanted a more durable backup than Taylor given DJ's own lack of durability. I doubt they view Lock as a potential alternative long term solution to DJ, but obviously I don't know for sure what's going on inside their minds.

Lock may never even see the field this year. I suspect he probably will for one reason or another, but we certainly don't know that. So it's unclear if he'll even have the opportunity to prove he's better than what he has shown so far in this league.

I wouldn't be shocked if he starts the first 3 games. Not sure DJ will be ready until October.

From how I see it, the "goofy brigade" is represented by both sides in the DJ debate. To put out a podcast about a "goofy brigade" is, well, goofy.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on May 17, 2024, 03:44:33 PMI truly don't understand this pick. It smacks of a panic but I see no reason for them to panic in that spot. May turn out an okay start but right now, to me at least, it looks bizarre.

The epitome of both hubris and stupidity. If the Giants win only one game in 24 I want it to be against the Falcons.

Things have to break the right way as they did in 2022 to get above 7 wins. Could happen. But 6 or 7 wins seems realistic today.

It would be presumptuous to put Nabers on the poster. The players on it currently are all they got to advertise right now.

Realistically and objectively right now he is, being generous, 21 out of 32. Which means a really good year for him only gets him to 15 or 16 while a few currently in front of him drop. That's his ceiling.

You can't rank those who never played a down in the NFL. I made my own rankings and had him at 21.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 08, 2024, 05:33:06 PMI respectfully beg to differ. Last August there were people on this board arguing that the Giants were going to be "something special this year." I don't think any of those folks, or even a number who were less emphatic but still cautiously optimistic, would have told you last August that the Giant would go 0-5 in those five games.

Selective amnesia. Remember how great Jones and Waller looked in the five minutes they played in the pre season?

I think after seeing TT clearly outperform Jones last year, that is what spurs this discussion. I think because of what they are paying him, Jones is the QB unless hurt or a total meltdown.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 05, 2024, 07:43:04 AMConspiracy Theories: The bastion of the weak minded. 

And there are many many weak minded out there these days.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on May 04, 2024, 06:23:27 AMGeorge Young ran the team as a dictator. For better or worse. In effect, the NFL took over the Giants franchise in 1979 after "The Fumble" because Wellington Mara had run it into the ground with 15 years of mismanagement and awful decision-making and his nephew Tim, Jr., had to step in and block Wellington's rule. Wellington and his side of the family owned 50% of the franchise and Tim's family (as the son of Wellington's sister) owned the other 50%. Pete Rozelle essentially forced Wellington to hire Young as a GM and to become a figurehead signing checks and hanging out on the field with the players while Young ran the show. That went really well for about 10 years until Young lost his touch in the 1990s, especially when he drafted Dave Brown and cut Phil Simms about 2-3 years too soon (though he did manage to draft Michael Strahan and Tiki Barber before retiring). Accorsi wasn't a great GM but he drafted Eli and Tom Coughlin was hired as HC during his tenure (against Accorsi's desires, he and Coughlin didn't really get along). By then, the Maras were once again involved in decision-making.

The Giants ownership is an odd structure. John Mara is not the owner. He and his brother Chris are part co-owners, and their side of the Mara family owns 50% of the team. The other 50% is owned by the Tisch family, which bought that share from Tim Mara, Jr.'s family. For me, the problem begins once the ownership and professional side are mixed. For instance, Chris Mara is both a Giants executive and a co-owner. Which means, essentially, that he can never be fired. And John Mara cannot be fired as team president, though he is clearly incompetent at his job.

The Giants have been a bad team since 2012 because, essentially, the owners have made a string of poor hires at both the GM position (Gettleman, who wasn't a puppet, just bad), and head coach (McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge, while the jury is out on Daboll). It's as simple as that. 

Perfect post that sums up the state of the Giants. I agree that Young did lose touch. The Ray Handley hiring, though he had to rush into that was a debacle. And then the Dave Brown mistake. You are very correct about how John Mara, whether he wants to or not, is involved in the running of the football team. I repeat that there is no conspiracy. It's just that Mara hires those he feels comfortable with and are aligned with his conservative (in team running) sensibilities. He wants someone on the same page as he is. Thus we fans have suffered for over a decade with no end in sight unless lady luck interferes.