Do the Giants trade down? Minnesota can trade their first and second for the Giants first and second and it works out pretty even. Since nobody trades for an even swap, the Giants will likely want something extra if there is a QB there they do not want and players they do, that they can get at #11.
Oakland seems to be interested in Jayden Daniels only. If he is still there at #6 (unlikely, but possible) there may be a lot offered to the Giants to move down to #13.
I guess the real question is whether the Giants truly believe Daniel Jones is the guy or if they have been telling free agents that to convince the rest of the league they are not interested in a QB. Of course, if Jones doesn't work out, there is no promise that Daboll and Schoen still have their jobs in 2025 to use any extra draft picks they may acquire. They will want picks in 2024. The poker game continues. Two weeks before everyone shows their cards.
As always, the rule for a top 10 pick is not to screw it up. The draft for me starts on Day 2. If the Giants take a QB, I would rather see it after Round 1. Lots of flash and overvalued options in this year's draft at the top of the draft for QB. REAL value in the second and third rounds. Id' go for as many picks as I could get between 30 and 90.
Hi Mitch.
What are the chances that Schoen already has pick swapping scenario contingency agreements in place with those two teams and, perhaps, a few others?
We've discussed most of the permutations of how the first handful of picks would have to play out for the Giants to even be in the position to consider such scenarios. But have we really taken the time to calculate the probabilities of Schoen even getting into a position in which to entertain pick swapping which would benefit the overall drafting opportunities for the Giants in a few weeks?
In the end, I am hoping the Giants walk away with a high probability impact player and several quality young and hungry kids who want to contribute to make the Giants a better team. If that means swapping picks to add day two picks or an additional day one pick next year, then so be it.
If the probable value and impact are there at pick six, then Schoen should cash in and move on. That will be fine and he doesn't have to get cute with the chance of outsmarting himself.
Some folks here have already given up on his pick seven two seasons ago. I'm willing to wait until we see him under Bricillo who was commissioned to teach and develop his players. His other #1 picks will be starters on defense for many years to come. I, for one, will be fine with the decision he makes and, if he swaps picks, then it was because he identified opportunity by doing so.
Long story, short, poker face until gets on the clock and place your bets!
Peace!
Round 1 QB or pass on a QB. Round 2 and later rarely become stars.
Despite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks. Sixth overall is a bit high to look at other positions, but Best TE and Best WR in the draft are also an option this year.
I just don't like the idea of using the #6 overall pick on the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft. If they take a QB at #6, that is almost certainly what they will be doing.
As for the later Rounds, there is a 2nd round or later WR Pro-Bowler in almost EVERY draft.
Quote from: kartanoman on April 13, 2024, 11:30:32 PMWhat are the chances that Schoen already has pick swapping scenario contingency agreements in place with those two teams and, perhaps, a few others?
I would think he does.
Quote from: kartanoman on April 13, 2024, 11:30:32 PMHi Mitch.
What are the chances that Schoen already has pick swapping scenario contingency agreements in place with those two teams and, perhaps, a few others?
I would think they do. I have heard what usually happens is before the draft starts, teams have had discussions and have agreed "in principle" to a deal. The caveat is based on their players being/not being there. So, in case of Raiders for argument sake, conversation goes like this:
Schoen; we have guys we like at 6. if they are there, we are taking them.
raiders: we would give you 13, this, that, the other thing for 6 IF the guy we like is there.
Schoen: OK, we could do that.
Giants on the clock: Phone rings.
Schoen's guy: Hello?
Raiders: Our guy is there, still interested?
Schoen: Either A) sorry, we have our guy and are taking him. or B) Deal.
If A occurs, Raiders call whoever owns the 7th pick as they likely have something worked out there too, "IN PRINCIPLE".
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 13, 2024, 09:53:09 PMSince nobody trades for an even swap, the Giants will likely want something extra if there is a QB there they do not want and players they do, that they can get at #11.
bama: Heck, yeah. The Vikings have TWO first-round picks this year, and the Giants would want both of them. Bob
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 14, 2024, 08:27:25 AMDespite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks. Sixth overall is a bit high to look at other positions, but Best TE and Best WR in the draft are also an option this year.
I just don't like the idea of using the #6 overall pick on the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft. If they take a QB at #6, that is almost certainly what they will be doing.
As for the later Rounds, there is a 2nd round or later WR Pro-Bowler in almost EVERY draft.
I like your response, Mitchell, and am completely on board with you here.
Which player at #6 gives your team a tilt of the field in your direction. In other words, what player, by himself or teamed with your current players, offers you the best chance for a competitive advantage? Some folks call that an "impact player."
In their current position, going QB leaves important holes elsewhere unaddressed. Any of the positions you've called out will help this Giants' team immediately.
If they decide to move down the draft board, and gain aggregate draft value because it, then I would expect Schoen and Daboll to target explicit positions they want to upgrade, and more than one or two.
We'll find out soon enough, but Schoen executing the Giants' draft either of the two philosophies discussed above should address Giant needs to turn their fortunes around. Perhaps not as quickly as a QB with the "It" factor, but certainly to build a solid nucleus for the future.
Peace!
Giants would need a partner to trade back. If it does not happen, what then?
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have Merry Christmas- Don Meredeth.
What say you, Howard?
Cheers!
Quote from: Painter on April 15, 2024, 03:19:12 PMIf ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have Merry Christmas- Don Meredeth.
What say you, Howard?
Cheers!
I'd say the reason the Cubs took so long to win a World Series is because as soon as they realized they had a player who had remarkable talent, they traded him for three guys who didn't.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 14, 2024, 08:27:25 AMDespite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks.
bama: This is my mantra every year the Giants pick in the top 10 (sadly, all too often this century lol). Better to get a player (at almost any position) whom the team views as "can't-miss" instead of left-overs at (for example) QB. That, IMO, is the way to truly take advantage of the high 1st-round position. Bob
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 14, 2024, 08:27:25 AMDespite the #6 pick, the Giants are not picking where they can historically get a top QB. They are picking in a spot where you can historically get the Best CB, Best Edge rusher/DE, or Best DT. This year you can add Best OT to that list, which is rare. The best one typically goes with one of the top 5 picks. Sixth overall is a bit high to look at other positions, but Best TE and Best WR in the draft are also an option this year.
I just don't like the idea of using the #6 overall pick on the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft. If they take a QB at #6, that is almost certainly what they will be doing.
As for the later Rounds, there is a 2nd round or later WR Pro-Bowler in almost EVERY draft.
Generally I would agree with this but when you look at this draft vs next year's draft the 4th best QB in this draft might be better than the best QB next year. So if they don't take one now, and don't end up with the #1 or #2 pick next year (which means a historically awful season) then they may not be in position to take a new QB for a long time.
Jones, while awful, is juuuuuuust good enough to keep you out of the top 1 or 2 picks in the draft. He's the worst kind of terrible you can be. If you're gonna be bad be exceptionally bad so your team can replace you. He is tantalizingly awful because he can flash some good moments surrounded by terrible ones and enough of those good moments gets you to 6-8 wins and out of the QB lottery. It's QB hell and the Giants are right smack in the thick of it.
Quote from: bamagiantfan on April 15, 2024, 06:07:50 PMI'd say the reason the Cubs took so long to win a World Series is because as soon as they realized they had a player who had remarkable talent, they traded him for three guys who didn't.
But you can't compare baseball or basketball where one great player has that much impact. In football you have 22 starters; plus every pick has a relatively unexpected chance of failure
—> more picks chance of success > less picks ....
Quote from: Gmo11 on April 16, 2024, 09:34:42 AMGenerally I would agree with this but when you look at this draft vs next year's draft the 4th best QB in this draft might be better than the best QB next year. So if they don't take one now, and don't end up with the #1 or #2 pick next year (which means a historically awful season) then they may not be in position to take a new QB for a long time.
Jones, while awful, is juuuuuuust good enough to keep you out of the top 1 or 2 picks in the draft. He's the worst kind of terrible you can be. If you're gonna be bad be exceptionally bad so your team can replace you. He is tantalizingly awful because he can flash some good moments surrounded by terrible ones and enough of those good moments gets you to 6-8 wins and out of the QB lottery. It's QB hell and the Giants are right smack in the thick of it.
Once that is recognized cutting bait is required. Instead of a new contract Mara should have given Jones a severance package. I maintain the contract was Mara's doing, and the two year out was the compromise. If one can read a horse racing program then one can see Jones getting injured again.