Big Blue Huddle

I know this isn't a new topic here, but now that Eli is officially eligible and this subject is currently in the news and national discussion, I thought it would be worth taking a fresh poll to see where people stand.

Does Eli belong in the Hall of Fame?

Please remember, you are voting on what you think SHOULD happen, not what you think WILL happen.

I would love to hear all opinions. Thanks.

We've talked enough about Jones and the offense. It goes without saying they all need to do better. This thread isn't about that.

What about or pass rush? We paid through the nose to get Brian Burns, and we used a 5th overall pick on Thibodeaux. We have an all pro in Dex. I've heard nothing but hype about how nasty our pass rush is going to be this year. I didn't see it at all last Sunday. Sam Darnold could have worn a tuxedo in the pocket and read entire chapters of Moby Dick back there before rearing back to throw. It was ridiculous.

The Commanders have the 27th ranked O line per PFF. This is not a good O line. We're going up against a rookie QB in week two. Yes, he's mobile, but he is also an inexperienced rookie who can be forced into mistakes.

No excuses, and if we can't get home with a four man rush, our new DC better show some willingness to bring some extra heat. This is critical for today. It didn't happen against Minnesota. It had better happen today.

He plays the most important position on the Giants, and this is a Giants fan board. And his level of play today is worth talking about, so I think it's justified to start one.

This was an absolute calamity today. I'd like to hear if anyone has any other take other than that Jones was simply awful beyond belief. And unlike last year in week one, this was against a totally manageable, non playoff opponent.

My personal opinion is that this nightmare needs to end. I know they won't bench Jones after this week, but I would seriously consider it if I were these guys. Is Jones definitely better than some of these QBs out there on the street? Have Tannehill or Wentz been signed? I bet there are multiple others that can do a better job than this.

I understand that some will call this a week one overreaction, but the fact that it's only week one is sort of my point. Why let this snowball to 1-5 or 1-7 before making a change? How much more of this are they going to subject the fans to?

Is anyone seeing it differently? Is there any reason I'm missing to expect him to suddenly start playing better?

Please discuss all non-Giants games here.


Anyone watching tonight? KC/Baltimore in a good one. Impressed with the Chief receivers (Rice and Worthy) so far. Zay Flowers also looking good for Baltimore. Haven't seen one ball go to Mark Andrews or Travis Kelce yet, which is interesting.

For Giants fans who don't watch college football or read the NCAA Football threads, I thought you might want a quick peak at Arch Manning's outing yesterday. He came in in the late third quarter against Colorado State, not exactly a defensive juggernaut. Still, it electrified the crowd, and he definitely looked good.

Obviously, we won't have a real idea of just how good a college player and pro prosepct he is until we see him playing in key moments against strong opponents, which is not likely to happen this year without an injury to their starter Ewers, but it was still fun to see him come in and make some nice plays and put up some very good numbers.

I know there are some who think he is overhyped and will be mediocre, but I personally think he'll be very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nVMW9sFUCA

Anyone watching any of these games tonight? I have North Dakota State at Colorado on right now. Wanted to get early eyes on Shedeur. I always think it's very hard to evaluate these spread QBs. I'm not sure how I feel about him as a pro prospect yet.

There is zero defense being played in this game in any event. Still entertaining though.

Other games I'm excited about this week:

Notre Dame at Texas A+M: Great early measuring stick for both teams.

Clemson at UGA: Very tough matchup for Clemson. Will be interesting to see if they can hang in in this one.

PSU at WVU: PSU should be able to win this, but WVU can be very feisty at home. I'm very curious to see how Allar looks this year.

USC at LSU: USC paid Lincoln Riley a ton of money and threw him a ton of perks. He had one of the better college football QBs in recent memory. Is he ever going to make this USC program the top 5 power they thought he'd turn it into when they hired him? Meanwhile, what will LSU look like this year with Daniels, Nabers, and Brian Thomas Jr all gone to the NFL?

Miami at Florida: I don't know too much about either team yet, but this is sure to be a fun event.

Better not spend a single snap at RT this season.

https://x.com/JustinPenik/status/1827500117072449714

Pretty much every year, there are NFL teams who really surprise and do a lot better than people are expecting. The Texans and Browns were examples last year.

Are there any teams you could see significantly exceeding expectations this year? Please explain why you feel that way.

For this thread, please don't list the Giants, even if you believe they will exceed expectations. This is a non-Giants topic thread. If you choose to respond, please only focus on the other 31 teams.

Thanks.

What player(s) and/or units of the team will you be most closely focused on tonight?

With the obvious and very true disclaimer that this is just preseason, I think it's worth highlighting how our RBs did in this game:

Turbo Miller: 12 carries, 63 yards (5.3 YPC), plus 2 catches for 7 yards.

Eric Gray: 4 carries, 52 yards (13 YPC), 2 rushing touchdowns, plus 4 catches for 46 yards.

Tyrone Tracy Jr: 4 carries, 26 yaard (5.2 YPC).


I think all three of these guys did a great job. They all looked very good.

I also think our O line play was a huge part of it, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing, for everyone involved.

I hate to pile on a guy after a rough night, but this wasn't good. Not good at all.

His career stats are very bad too. Tyrod's were similar to Jones'. Lock's are much, much worse.

Here is my question: is there a universe where you would consider making Tommy D the backup over Lock? I don't think that's such a crazy idea after watching this game tonight.

I can't help myself. I know it's a little extreme to have a preseason game thread, but I'm jonesing for some football, and I'm dying to hear real time takes from members on the action tonight.

Last year the Giants had one of the worst run defenses in the NFL, both from the standpoint of rushing yards allowed per game (fourth worst) as well as rushing yards allowed per carry (third worst). They were truly terrible in this department.

To me, stopping the run is one of the cornerstones of being a good defense. Even though it's a passing league now, if you are woefully deficient at stopping the run, which the Giants clearly were last year, teams will identify and exploit this deficiency and just keep relentlessly killing you on the ground all game. Invariably, this makes it a lot easier for them to throw all over you as well given the down and distance situations they find themselves in.

While I like some things about our defense, what evidence is there to believe that the run defense will be improved this year? Considering how poor it was last year despite an all pro season for Dexter Lawrence and a pro bowl caliber season for Okereke (I know he didn't officially make it but that was widely considered a snub), why would it be much better this year? Or do you expect it to remain a major problem?

"During the week, I'm helping Dabes put together the offense, talking about the scheme, talking about the players, talking about our roster and what that looks like on the offensive side of the football. At the practice field, I'm helping complement the coaches and help coach and orchestrate how we're going to operate on offense as far as practice flow, organizing drills and how we're going to do those things," Kafka told reporters. "It's an open communication, and it's things that pass through me to Dabes, and we talk about how Dabes wants to run it, and then we go back and execute it for him."

Kafka continues to take the high road but it's easy for anyone to see that his role has been dramatically reduced despite the portrayed "promotion."

"I'm going to take it as a learning approach, learn as much as I can from the people around me, and then contribute as best I can, whether I am calling plays or I'm not. Whatever that situation looks like. I'm going to do my best to help the team win," he said.


Full article:

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/08/02/new-york-giants-mike-kafka-explains-his-role-after-being-stripped-play-calling-duties/?taid=66af6d5fa4cf1f00013df6aa&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Duggan on which players are trending up and which are trending down.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5677515/2024/08/04/new-york-giants-training-camp-evan-neal-darius-slayton/


Giants stock report: Why Evan Neal's absence has his future in doubt

The New York Giants have completed eight training camp practices. They return to practice on Sunday after a day off. Then, the intensity ramps up with joint practices against the Lions on Monday and Tuesday and the preseason opener against Detroit on Thursday.

This is a good time to assess whose stock is rising and whose stock is falling before the stakes increase this week:

Stock up

S Dane Belton

It's easy to put Belton in this category after defensive coordinator Shane Bowen declared the starting safety job his to lose. Belton took a big leap in the battle for the starting spot next to Jason Pinnock, thanks to rookie Tyler Nubin's calf injury, which sidelined him for five practices.

Belton has shown a nose for the ball in limited opportunities in his first two seasons, which has continued in camp, highlighted by an impressive leaping interception of a Daniel Jones pass at the goal line. Nubin returned to practice on Thursday. General manager Joe Schoen viewed the second-round pick as an immediate starter on draft day, but he has ground to make up on Belton.
CB Isaiah Simmons

Every coach gets excited about Simmons' rare combination of size and athleticism. But finding an impactful role for the 2020 No. 8 overall pick has been challenging. Bowen seems determined to unlock Simmons' physical gifts, as the 6-foot-4, 238-pounder has gotten extensive work with the first-team defense as a slot corner and a linebacker in the dime package. Simmons' main competition for playing time is Nick McCloud, who could get bumped into a starting role at outside corner.

DL Ryder Anderson

The starting spot on the defensive line next to veterans Dexter Lawrence and Rakeem Nunez-Roches was wide open this offseason. Anderson appears to have seized that role, getting reps with the first-team defense in every practice.

Anderson, 6-6 and 280, also has the inside track as the interior rusher next to Lawrence on passing downs. Signed as a rookie minicamp tryout in 2022, Anderson was stuck on the practice squad last season. He's in line for a significant jump to a starting job in his third season.

LB Dyontae Johnson

It's hard to gauge the reps at the inside linebacker spot next to Bobby Okereke because Micah McFadden has been on a pitch count as he ramps up from a hamstring injury he suffered in the spring. But it's impossible to ignore that Johnson has gotten extensive work with the starting defense. It's even harder to ignore that Johnson has made the most of those opportunities, including an interception of Jones from an Okereke tip in Thursday's practice.

Unless Johnson shows so much on defense that he unseats McFadden as the starter, his path to a roster spot will come via special teams. Veterans Carter Coughlin and Matthew Adams are locked into roles on special teams, while Darius Muasau has the advantage of being a draft pick this year. To secure a spot, Johnson likely needs to outperform someone from that trio on special teams in preseason games. He could not do so last year and landed on the practice squad.

RB Dante Miller

The running back competition is wide open behind Devin Singletary. Miller has gotten some first-team reps recently and has shown the burst that earned him the "Turbo" nickname. The challenge for the undrafted rookie will be establishing consistency beyond a few splash plays. Miller should get plenty of opportunities in preseason games when running backs can fully demonstrate their skills.


Stock down

OL Evan Neal

It may be unfair to put an injured player on this list, but Neal's stock has undoubtedly tumbled during his absence from the start of training camp due to a lingering ankle injury. First, the Giants moved Jermaine Eluemunor, who had worked exclusively at left guard during the spring, into the starting right tackle spot. Then, the Giants signed veteran guard Greg Van Roten to solidify the Eluemunor position shift as permanent.

So where does that leave Neal? There's no way he'll simply reclaim the starting right tackle job once he gets healthy. When that will be remains a mystery because he doesn't appear particularly close to returning while working on the side with trainers. Neal seems destined for a swing tackle role this season. His future beyond that is murky, with Eluemunor and left tackle Andrew Thomas signed through next season, which is the final year of Neal's rookie deal.

WR Darius Slayton

Slayton gets counted out every year and then invariably winds up as the team's leading receiver. Still, the deck seems more stacked against him this year with the team's youth movement at wide receiver. Rookie Malik Nabers clearly will be the No. 1 receiver, while third-year slot receiver Wan'Dale Robinson promises to be fed targets. Jalin Hyatt, a third-round pick last year, has been getting more reps with the starters than Slayton in camp.

It wouldn't be surprising if Slayton's consistency eventually pushes him above Hyatt. But it looks like the team will give their recent draft pick every opportunity to seize the No. 3 receiver role, which is bad news for Slayton in a contract year.
The New York Giants are younger at wide receiver this season, but Darius Slayton could still have a significant role on the roster. (Rich Schultz / Getty Images)

WR Isaiah Hodgins

A midseason revelation in 2022, Hodgins never gets first-team reps anymore. It's not hard to do the math and see how he could be in trouble for a roster spot. Nabers, Robinson, Hyatt and Slayton are the top four receivers. The Giants figure to carry Gunner Olszewski or Isaiah McKenzie as a return specialist, while other depth receivers like Miles Boykin and Bryce Ford-Wheaton offer more on special teams.

The Giants know what they have in Hodgins as a receiver and his role in the offense shrunk last season. With more mouths to feed at receiver, Hodgins must prove he can contribute in the kicking game to secure a roster spot.

OL Marcus McKethan

It's clear that McKethan's opportunity has passed. The 2022 fifth-round pick went from starting five games last season to being stuck as the third-team left guard every practice despite all of the shuffling among the linemen. Being behind undrafted rookie Jake Kubas and Jalen Mayfield, who spent last season on the practice squad, doesn't bode well for McKethan's odds of making the roster in his third season.
go-deeper

GO DEEPER

Malik Nabers practice diary: The Giants' plan for him, his 'long-lost brother' and cutting knee pads
OL Austin Schlottmann

Unlike other backup offensive linemen signed in free agency who got one-year minimum contracts with little guaranteed money, the Giants gave Schlottmann a two-year, $2.8 million contract with $500,000 guaranteed. It's not a major commitment, but enough of an investment to assume the sixth-year veteran would be the No. 2 center.

But even with starting center John Michael Schmitz missing the past five practices with a shoulder injury, Schlottmann hasn't been the unquestioned next man up. He already had been splitting reps with Jimmy Morrissey, who signed a minimum contract with no guaranteed money in January, before Van Roten and Jon Runyan started taking reps at center. It seems like the Giants are prepping to have a guard move to center if Schmitz misses time during the season, which wouldn't be necessary if they were fully confident in Schlottmann.

I thought this was a middle of the road episode. Not bad, but not as interesting as one or two of the others. A few thoughts:

-I watched the episode with my wife. She said "he doesn't seem that psyched", referring to Malik Nabers when he was informed the Giants were picking him. I sort of couldn't disagree based on his initial reaction, but he seemed to warm up after that scene. I'm in no way concerned about this and couldn't be more bullish on this player.

-I liked the feeling I got about Andru Phillips in this episode. He's one of our picks that I haven't had a very strong feel one way or the other about, so I was happy to get a sense of how much work the team did on him, and I liked the part before the draft where Schoen said Phillips was the last corner they'd be really pumped about getting before the board got to developmental guys.

-It was interesting that the Colts and Jets called about the number six pick. Schoen seems receptive and polite on these calls even though it's clear he has no intention of moving down.

-There was definitely some more filler in this episode, which I know most members here are not fans of. I don't disagree. I guess the show is adding a human side to this but I don't think we need to be seeing young kids' birthday parties and stuff like that. I didn't mind the scene where the whole team was having drinks after the draft though. It's always nice to blow off a little steam with co-workers after a project is complete.


I don't really have many other observations from this episode. You sort of knew everything that was going to happen, so nothing was overly surprising or educational. I still enjoyed it though.

How bad will Schoen look if any of Penix, McCarthy, or Nix become great QBs? Assume in this scenario that Nabers ends up being an excellent NFL receiver but Jones never plays materially better than he did in 2022.

I know all predictions are meaningless, but it's the slow season still. Check out our apparent number one pick in the 2026 draft (yes, 2026).

https://walterfootball.com/draft2026.php

I thought this was an enjoyable and interesting episode. Thoughts off the top of my head:


-This was my favorite episode, followed by episode two.

-It was very clear that the Giants were actively interested in trading up with the Pats and that they also liked Daniels but basically knew there was no chance the Commanders would do a trade with them.

-The Pats made it clear that the only way the Giants would be able to move up to three would be if they really paid through the nose in a punitive way, and Schoen was not going to do that.

-Nabers is clearly going to be a beast. The footage of him at the pro day was fun to watch. I didn't realize quite how ripped and big he is. To move the way he does with that much muscle mass is unusual. Not just the speed but the twitchiness to that degree.

-I loved Dabs' mention of his conversation with Saban and Saban's strong endorsement of Nabers and Bowers, the latter of whom seemed to be in the Giants' contingency plans had they moved down.

-Sounds like they would have been happy with any of the three receivers, and it's unclear that the preferred Harrison to Nabers. We know Groh preferred Nabers.

-All the interactions in this episode were fun to watch. Much livelier than episode three.

-Episode five (draft day) should be a lot of fun to watch.

Another 4-13 projection:

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/07/23/usa-today-predicts-miserable-2024-season-new-york-giants/?taid=669f749f32e46300013f8cce&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

7 last-minute signings Giants could make before training camp.

Any names here that jump out at you?

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/lists/7-last-minute-signings-new-york-giants-could-make-before-training-camp/?taid=669b8981f2c910000169af63&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Interesting take on our QB from a well followed analytics-driven commentator:


https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1812886358299484544

For those interested, here are links (with projected records and a quick summary) with the rest of Walter's takes on the NFC East teams:



Dallas Cowboys: 9-8

"Based on the Super Bowl odds, the Cowboys are an overrated team heading into 2024. Their offensive line took an enormous hit, while their defense lost some personnel and didn't receive the necessary upgrades that were needed to avoid another disaster like the blowout loss to Green Bay. Dallas may have trouble making the playoffs this year."

https://walterfootball.com/offseason2024dal.php


Philadelphia Eagles: 13-4

"The Eagles have the potential to be the best team in the NFL. Their already-explosive offense will be even more electric in the wake of the Saquon Barkley signing. Meanwhile, the defense will improve, thanks to the additions of Vic Fangio, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Devin White, and the two early draft choices. Philadelphia has to be considered one of the favorites to win Super Bowl LIX."

https://walterfootball.com/offseason2024phi.php


Washington Commanders: 7-10

The [Commanders] are an underrated team. They've found a franchise quarterback, as Jayden Daniels will have some talented weapons at his disposal. They've upgraded their offensive line, aside from left tackle. And they've made some big upgrades to their defense. There's some downsides, namely left tackle and the secondary, but Washington seems like it'll be competitive enough to win seven to nine games this year.

https://walterfootball.com/offseason2024was.php

Don't shoot the messenger!


https://walterfootball.com/offseason2024nyg.php

I know the season just ended, but since I am so floored by the below story, I figured I might as well start the next season's thread today.

I am posting today because of what Brunson has done (see article below if you are not already aware).

I already loved and hugely respected this guy. But the below makes me respect him even more -- a lot more actually -- than I already did, which was already a lot. Just an incredible, team-first move on his part. What an example to the rest of the league, which is so full of selfish, me-first guys who sit 20 games a year out fully healthy and act like total divas all the time.

Major, major props to Brunson for this. Talk about a guy who is willing to do whatever it takes to maximize the team's chances of greatness. What a stud. What a great leader.

https://nypost.com/2024/07/12/sports/jalen-brunson-posts-message-to-knicks-fans-after-113m-contract-gift/

My initial quick thoughts:


(1) Definitely a much better and more interesting episode. I loved watching the combine scenes, in particular the interview scenes.

(2) Dabs is a good interviewer. Lots of quick reaction, detailed questions that put these guys on the spot, but he did it in a respectful and disarming way.

(3) It is now beyond even a shadow of a doubt that the Giants were interested in that number three pick and were in some degree of discussions with the Pats (we witnessed the beginnings of them in this episode firsthand). I thought it was a near virtual certainty before I saw this episode, but now I know 100% for sure.

(4) I was more impressed with the supporting cast in the front office than what I saw in the episode. I thought Hannah Burnett was impressive, and I continue to like Brandon Brown (although I liked him in the first episode as well).

(5) The scenes of the group having fun with each other in the stands and having a nice evening out were good to see. I think these kinds of things are important in work environments. You're going to deal with the job at hand better as a team when people know each other to some degree on a personal level and have established more of a connection.

(6) I thought Saquon sounded a bit aloof in that phone conversation with Schoen towards the end of the episode.

(7) Nabers pretty much said he'll be pissed if he doesn't get the ball in the interview. And Daboll said he liked that. Interesting.


Curious what everyone else thought.

Who would be your starting four defensive backs if you had to put together the best secondary possible comprised of Giants who were on the team anytime from the 2000 season on?

There is no minimum amount of time that the player had to be on the team since 2000, but you can only base this on the players' single best season in a Giants' uniform. What they may have done on any other team is irrelevant, and there are no extra points for having had many good seasons on the Giants instead of just one or two. You're basing this solely on the player's best single season on the Giants in 2000 or later, even if they were only on the team for a year or two.

So, who are your two corners and two safeties?

From the article:

Although the scenery is all the same, Taylor feels there is better energy in the Jets' locker room compared to the Giants'.

"This is no disrespect to (the Giants) or anything, but when coming in here and being around the guys for Phase One, it was refreshing the energy throughout the locker room," Taylor said, via the Jets' official website.


Full article:

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2024/07/05/tyrod-taylor-compares-jets-new-york-giants-refreshing-energy-here/?taid=66889742212ba80001b2f46b&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Whom do you feel more optimistic about overall as a player moving forward: Jalin Hyatt or Wan'Dale Robinson?

Why?

My base case for the Giants is that they'll be similar to last season, perhaps a little bit better. I expect them to be somewhere in the 6 to 8 win range, falling short of the playoffs again.

However, I acknowledge there are multiple ways I could be wrong about the 6 to 8 win range. They could be worse than that, or they could be better. I think that goes without saying.

Here is what I think has to happen for them to be better than 8 wins and to have a realistic shot of making the playoffs:


QB play:

-Jones shows no obvious signs of lingering issues with his knee and is at least 90-95% healthy.

-Jones gets off to a solid start against two weak defenses to start the year, building confidence in the process, and has a solid season, similar to 2022 but with more chunk plays and better red zone play than 2022. This leads to more passing yards and more passing touchdowns than 2022 but with similar (or better) efficiency numbers. Something like 3700/21/9 with a 94 rating and solid rushing production.


O line:

-O line goes from being a bad O line to a middling/functional O line. This happens due to an improved season from Schmitz and at least two of the three main veteran additions (Stinnie, Eleumenor, and Runyan) being clear upgrades to what we had last year. Neal is a wildcard at best, but a better season from him (at any position) would also help. Thomas will also need to stay healthy all year or the vast majority of it and play at his peak capacity.


Offensive skill positions:

-Nabers shows elite talent right from the jump and puts together an impressive rookie season. 1000 yards and 7 TDs or something in that zone. At least one of Wan'Dale and Hyatt steps up in a material way. Slayton/McKenzie/Robinson all contribute as depth guys.

-The running game is serviceable, with Singletary having a solid season and Tracey flashing at times. While the running game won't dazzle, improved line play means it can still get the requisite 3-4 yard runs when they need them and can function well in the passing game.

-We got solid TE play all year, either with one of Bellinger/Johnson materially stepping up or both of them simply being solid players.


Defensive front:

This is clearly the best part of our team. They play like an elite front four all year and stay healthy. Thibodeaux and Burns combine to be a top notch edge rush tandem all season.


Secondary:

Banks takes a big step forward in his second year and proves to be our legit boundary CB1 moving forward. Safety play is solid despite the loss of McKinney. CB2 play is serviceable enough to not be a devastating liability. Slot CB play, where we are fairly deep, is solid for much of the year.


Specials:

This goes from being an area of weakness to a much improved unit and possible area of strength with better coaching and some roster upgrades.


Coaching:

Our coaching staff functions cohesively all year, with no drama and in-fighting, and Daboll focuses more on offensive playcalling with Bowen left to run the defense, with which he does a solid job in his first season as DC.


I am not predicting all of these things will happen, obviously. Nor am I saying every single one needs to happen for us to win 9-plus games. But broadly speaking this is what I think the 2024 Giants season will somewhat look like in the event that we do surprise and make the playoffs.


Which of the above scenarios do you see as realistic, and which seem more like long shots or pipe dreams to you?