Here is an interesting article on EVs and the recent cold weather
https://www.yahoo.com/news/electric-car-owners-confront-harsh-130352017.html
Another major issue I have heard about EVs is they have almost no resale value.
EVs also have a hard-stop limited life VS ICE. The battery pack will eventually fail, and it's very costly to replace. With ICE, their life varies by how you drive them and how well you care for them.
I think the cold weather article brings up another issue. It's not just how long it takes to charge; if there is a line, you need to consider how long the person(s) in front of you will take.
Barring some sort of tech breakthrough, I have my doubts that EVs will prove to be the future of private transport.
I think if there is a change in the leadership to the other side, we see a shift.
Still say Hybrids are t he way to go. If you can't charge it switches over to gas and then all this is unnecessary.
Quantum Computing will eventually figure out battery technology from the components to charging to life expectancy.
It's a game changer for mankind.
I will add another issue. One owner complained that one you park a car with an eighth of a tank and come back a couple of weeks later you still have an eighth of a tank.
Also apartment dwellers are screwed.
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 06:04:45 AMI will add another issue. One owner complained that one you park a car with an eighth of a tank and come back a couple of weeks later you still have an eighth of a tank.
Also apartment dwellers are screwed.
Don't understand.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 18, 2024, 07:19:32 AMDon't understand.
Batteries continue to drain even when the vehicle isn't run
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 07:58:44 AMBatteries continue to drain even when the vehicle isn't run
One owner complained that one you park a car with an eighth of a tank and come back a couple of weeks later you still have an eighth of a tank. Don't you mean park a car with a full charge?
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 18, 2024, 08:17:52 AMOne owner complained that one you park a car with an eighth of a tank and come back a couple of weeks later you still have an eighth of a tank.
Don't you mean park a car with a full charge?
Apparently, the owner parked with only a little range left, and when he came back a couple of weeks later, the range was near zero. He was saying with gas cars, you park with an eighth of a tank, and it still has that much when you get back to your car. If my original wasn't clear, I was posting on my phone which is not my preferred way to post
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 17, 2024, 09:10:12 PMQuantum Computing will eventually figure out battery technology from the components to charging to life expectancy.
It's a game changer for mankind.
This isn't the first time I heard you mention quantum computing. You inspired me to look into it. I think this article appealed to me and my engineering (the field that converts scientific knowledge into practical applications) background.
https://www.wired.com/story/wired-guide-to-quantum-computing/
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 18, 2024, 10:50:43 AMThis isn't the first time I heard you mention quantum computing. You inspired me to look into it. I think this article appealed to me and my engineering (the field that converts scientific knowledge into practical applications) background.
https://www.wired.com/story/wired-guide-to-quantum-computing/
Actually, I think you would have also made an excellent Physician but be that as it may, take a look at this book. I foresee medical breakthroughs, food production, new energy resources, and space exploration when it figures out how to reverse gravity and bend Space/Time. Then there will be boundless abundance and it will end all wars over territory. It's the hardware for AI.
https://mkaku.org/home/publications/quantum-supremacy/
I was discussing something like this with a friend today and we both agreed, why can't they invent a battery that charges as you drive, thus almost eliminating the need for a physical charge most of the time? If the electric battery is charging as you drive it would make gas engines almost obsolete.
Quote from: LennG on January 18, 2024, 08:22:24 PMI was discussing something like this with a friend today and we both agreed, why can't they invent a battery that charges as you drive, thus almost eliminating the need for a physical charge most of the time? If the electric battery is charging as you drive it would make gas engines almost obsolete.
It's called planned product adolescence.
Quote from: LennG on January 18, 2024, 08:22:24 PMI was discussing something like this with a friend today and we both agreed, why can't they invent a battery that charges as you drive, thus almost eliminating the need for a physical charge most of the time? If the electric battery is charging as you drive it would make gas engines almost obsolete.
Then how would multi-millionaires become multi-billionaires???
Business always has been and will always be about who can accumulate the most worldly wealth. I guarantee they all know where they rack and stack on the list of the world's richest people.
Quote from: T200 on January 19, 2024, 10:56:08 AMThen how would multi-millionaires become multi-billionaires???
Business always has been and will always be about who can accumulate the most worldly wealth. I guarantee they all know where they rack and stack on the list of the world's richest people.
Of course, but if, say, what I suggested, a battery that can charge as you drive, how does that impact the multi-money makers? IMHO they would see twice as many cars, the only drawback is the battery itself.
Unless, of course you mean that people would give up the gas guzzlers and that would impact the oil companies.
Quote from: LennG on January 19, 2024, 12:06:35 PMOf course, but if, say, what I suggested, a battery that can charge as you drive, how does that impact the multi-money makers? IMHO they would see twice as many cars, the only drawback is the battery itself.
Unless, of course you mean that people would give up the gas guzzlers and that would impact the oil companies.
The batteries would have increased longevity, enabling people to keep their cars longer. Instead of getting a new EV in 6 years, that new purchase may be pushed out to 10 or more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmxg-pFzMG8
These are the sort of stories that will put a dent in EV sales
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook
EVs are here to stay, but they aren't the ideal solution for people who travel a lot or have long distances to work. The U.S. is a lot different from European countries that are not as big as some of our states, let alone 50 of them. I've talked to a lot of folks from Europe who are shocked at the size of this country once they get here. They just assume if they visit NYC, they can drive for an hour or two and see the Niagara Falls. They are used to driving across their entire country in less than 8 hours...not several days that is the norm for the U.S.
One of the things that stuck in my craw a few years back, was a (I'll just call him a "high level" politician) who said, "sometimes you just have to put engineers backs against the wall to make them find solutions faster". Well, that is NOT how engineering works. They are already highly motivated and extremely intelligent
EVs are still ahead of their time. They solve one problem whilst making new problems. The whole switching to a new source of energy to drive a country's economy requires transition time and extreme planning...it can't be forced. And stopping our own production of fossil fuels, and turning around and buying our fossil fuel needs from other countries does NOTHING to change the world's carbon footprint - it only makes us reliant on other countries for our energy needs, which in turn, hurts our economic strength and putting our money into other countries' economies...makes no sense!
You want to motivate engineers to find faster solutions...dangle cash at a finish line. That will work ten times faster than political hucksters (who have never engineered a thing in their lives) using legislation in a pathetic attempt to drive genius
Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 22, 2024, 10:06:39 AMEVs are here to stay, but they aren't the ideal solution for people who travel a lot or have long distances to work. The U.S. is a lot different from European countries that are not as big as some of our states, let alone 50 of them. I've talked to a lot of folks from Europe who are shocked at the size of this country once they get here. They just assume if they visit NYC, they can drive for an hour or two and see the Niagara Falls. They are used to driving across their entire country in less than 8 hours...not several days that is the norm for the U.S.
One of the things that stuck in my craw a few years back, was a (I'll just call him a "high level" politician) who said, "sometimes you just have to put engineers backs against the wall to make them find solutions faster". Well, that is NOT how engineering works. They are already highly motivated and extremely intelligent
EVs are still ahead of their time. They solve one problem whilst making new problems. The whole switching to a new source of energy to drive a country's economy requires transition time and extreme planning...it can't be forced. And stopping our own production of fossil fuels, and turning around and buying our fossil fuel needs from other countries does NOTHING to change the world's carbon footprint - it only makes us reliant on other countries for our energy needs, which in turn, hurts our economic strength and putting our money into other countries' economies...makes no sense!
You want to motivate engineers to find faster solutions...dangle cash at a finish line. That will work ten times faster than political hucksters (who have never engineered a thing in their lives) using legislation in a pathetic attempt to drive genius
I am mindful that when private automobiles first appeared, there were internal combustion engines, electric, and steam. Eventually, ICE became the standard. Plus, the technology tree has plenty of dead-end branches. I really think that hydrogen may ultimately prove to be a more practical and better replacement than EVs unless there is a major breakthrough in battery technology.
Right now, it seems smarter to continue to buy ICE autos or as Lenn suggested a plugin hybrid.
I mean, if I owned an EV as my only car and I wanted to spend a weekend down in, say, Wildwood (a popular destination here in NJ), I would have to drive in the heat (the AC will drain some of my range) 150 miles to Wildwood from home. I would then need to find a charger somewhere down in Wildwood (taking away precious vacation time) so that I can recharge my car for any trips down there plus charge it up near full for the trip back home.
Now compare that with an ICE auto. I drive down and fill up the tank at some point while I am down there (taking all of 5 or 10 minutes), and that's all I have to do in terms of thinking about or caring for my vehicle. The two experiences simply don't compare.
I think there will be EV vehicle discounts coming soon. I lobbied for Hydrogen 20 years ago but they didn't listen to me or Arnold. ;)
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/zero-emission-vehicle-and-infrastructure-statistics/hydrogen-refueling
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42796089/2024-honda-cr-v-powered-by-hydrogen-details/
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 22, 2024, 01:48:49 PMI think there will be EV vehicle discounts coming soon. I lobbied for Hydrogen 20 years ago but they didn't listen to me or Arnold. ;)
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/zero-emission-vehicle-and-infrastructure-statistics/hydrogen-refueling
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42796089/2024-honda-cr-v-powered-by-hydrogen-details/
On one of my walks, I walked by a relatively isolated industrial property. In the past, it's been used by car dealers to store the overflow of vehicles. A few weeks ago I walked past it, and there were 7 acres of Teslas.
Quote from: Ed Vette on January 22, 2024, 01:48:49 PMI think there will be EV vehicle discounts coming soon. I lobbied for Hydrogen 20 years ago but they didn't listen to me or Arnold. ;)
https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/zero-emission-vehicle-and-infrastructure-statistics/hydrogen-refueling
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42796089/2024-honda-cr-v-powered-by-hydrogen-details/
Hydrogen cars take 3 to 5 minutes to refuel and have a range of 300 - 400 miles.
Here is a good article comparing the two. If we (the US) focused on building out the hydrogen infrastructure and the economy of scale kicked in, hydrogen is the clear winner as it has the best long term potential
https://energy5.com/the-pros-and-cons-of-hydrogen-fuel-vs-electric-vehicles
Quote from: MightyGiants on January 22, 2024, 02:37:23 PMOn one of my walks, I walked by a relatively isolated industrial property. In the past, it's been used by car dealers to store the overflow of vehicles. A few weeks ago I walked past it, and there were 7 acres of Teslas.
Hydrogen cars take 3 to 5 minutes to refuel and have a range of 300 - 400 miles.
They emit vapors. Hydrogen can be produced by by separating oxygen from water. Actually Rich, ICE vehicles can run on hydrogen with some simple modifications.
https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/tech_validation/pdfs/fcm03r0.pdf
The issue here my friend is big money invested in Big Oil and Natural Gas. It's not a partisan issue either. It's the ones pulling their strings.
Here is an interesting take on EVs from Toyota
https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas-1690-rule-the-case-for-hybrids/