Big Blue Huddle

I do think PSUBeirut made some nice points though, it's not these guys fault where they're drafted and Barkley clearly did the best he could.

The Giants stupidly drafted this guy #2 with no plan. That will always infuriate me. You wanna take Barkley at 2? Fine. Build a fully comprehensive run game with the QB up under center and an unusual amount of resources on run blocking OL. Capitalize on the significant, out-of-the-box direction you've chosen.

Instead, just like with Jones, they surrounded him with a terrible run blocking OL, "blocking" TEs like Evan Engram, Lawrence Cager and Darren Waller, and shotgun inside hand-offs up the wazoo. He was running into a meat-grinder and got physically destroyed, right before our eyes, just like DJ.  It's been ugly to watch.

With all due respect to Banks, I think everyone appreciates what Barkley did (and didn't) do here.

But he soured on the Giants last year and because of all the ineptitude, guys like him and DJ don't think much of Giants fans either. It's a tough town - it's win or go home. His goodbye to the Giants community was pretty lame and now he'll continue to chirp.

I'm not going to "bash" him but I have the same evaluation of him now that I've had for years here: he's a mental headcase, he's compromised due to injury, he makes mental mistakes in pressure situations and he does not do a good with situational football or keeping the offense on schedule. Despite his reputation he's clunky and robotic in the pass game. What made this guy special is the gamebreaking ability and that's been gone for years now, and isn't coming back.

Business move rooted in emotion, both parties trying to stick it to the Giants. The Eagles were getting smacked around by everyone down the stretch. It's over. He'll have a couple big games and the fans will go crazy, but they'll regret the contract and booing the #^@$ out of him by the end of year. 

He just knows what to do. He plays with a calmness that allows him to make tough catches.

The comparison to Larry Fitzgerald is good. Big, great hands, perfect technique and a natural football player. Odunze or Nabers would be very exciting, but if the Giants somehow got MHJ I'd be over the moon. 

Let the guy bumble around in Sirianni's clownshow, behind a declining Eagles OL. The Eagles looked broken by the end of the year and Barkley isn't going to fix it. He's been an unlucky guy here and he'll continue to be unlucky going to PHI at the wrong time.

That said, I agree Barkley had no chance here, much like Daniel Jones. I was OK picking a once in a lifetime RB at #2 PROVIDED you build your franchise around his talents. Run heavy scheme with the QB up under C and the OL down in 3 pt. stances. Downhill. Big slobberknocking TEs. Think Kevin Gilbride running game.

Instead, he's used as a bit player, taking shotgun inside hand-offs while they try to be a passing team. As usual, there was no vision, strategy or plan with the pick.

Since I think he'd be an excellent G, I'll jump in.....

Let me start by saying I think he showed progress at RT last year and I have no issue giving him more time there.

That said, I have a strong feeling G would be his best position.

*He was an excellent G at Alabama.

*Part of the reason he was considered a slam-dunk high in the draft was because if he flopped at T, he'd be a great G worst-case scenario. (It was right there in the scouting report.)

*His issues (at least to me) are clearly playing in space related. When he's able to keep his balance and lock on to somebody, it's over. I see a guy extremely tough to beat in a phone booth. The one thing I'd worry about is picking up stunts inside - I see no reason he'd be any better at it at G than T.

In terms of his height, teams generally want shorter guys inside so they don't lose leverage to squatty, powerful DTs. And they also want to give the QB a clean scan of the field, and a throwing lane. I'd imagine Neal's head would block out the sun. I still think he'd be far better inside than out.

I know a lot of people would throw the remote, but you have to be careful passing on Alt because you don't need him. You just gave up almost 100 sacks, and this guy can really help you. Especially if you want to attack the edges like Daboll and Kafka do. This guy's got all the athleticism in the world to do those outside zones. That's Barkley's favorite play - but they've never had an OL that can block it.

king/clayton: I respect you guys, but he showed enough to convince real football people he was worth a $90M guaranteed contract. Those are the facts, the rest is just your opinion.

And yes, king - I thought they were going to have a good year. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else thought. The facts are, the OL was worse than ever & the skill players didn't pan out. (And no, it wasn't DJ's fault that they didn't.) Waller was forked with the hamstring, Parris Campbell was God Awful and Hyatt was sushi. Barkley got hurt week 2. Slayton is JAG. By the time Wan'dale got back DJ was long gone.

DJ got $90M from an NFL GM and the skill players and OL were subpar last year, as they have been every year of DJ's career. Those are the facts. The rest is just fan BS.

For those old school fans, think back to the 2000 season when the Giants signed Lomas Brown, Glenn Parker, Barry Stokes and Dusty Zeigler.

That's what I'd like to see, now. A bunch of chippy veterans who know how to play NFL football. They've GOT to stabilize this thing one way or another.

The "it's been 5 years he's had plenty of time to show something" isn't based on anything logical, and doesn't refute the simple point that you can't do anything in the NFL with a combination of bad OL and bottom-tier skill players.

And BTW - he's shown something. Did you miss the part where he got a $90M contract? Or is that being dismissed as fans on a message board are smarter than the GM?

I think we all agree the OL has been awful his entire career here so I won't spend time on that.

His #1 targets since he's been here?

*Golden Tate
*Darius Slayton
*Evan Engram
*Kenny Golladay
*Kadarius Toney
*Darren Waller on a bad hamstring

Yeah - it's been 5 years. And he's had a bad supporting cast the entire time. So refer back to the simple statement:

Bad OL + bad skills = hopeless situation for an NFL QB. When has he ever not had that? People can throw shade on him and cry all they want, that's why they were wrong about the contract he eventually got and why they're still confused, now.

The RB, blocking TE and swing OT should be able to be filled in the bargain bin.

The big ticket items are the 4 mentioned. This is coming from a good source....We'll see!

The ship is taking on water with public opinion, but I can tell you the feeling inside the building is progress has been made on the O. They need a QB, #1 WR and 2 G's. Lots to do but not some impossible task either. Some free agency money, the #6 and 2 2nd rounders.

They like the defensive core. Dex/Thibs up front, Okereke at MLB and Banks/McKinney in the D-backfield. Studs at all 3 levels. Solid foundation. They are working on McK now.

Things have swung overly negative after a disastrous year, which is understandable but not the feeling upstairs. Keep sawing wood, and nail that shopping list.

When you look at what the NY Giants ask of their Quarterback (I'm talking about the laundry list of corporate-style off-field responsibilities, too) McCarthy checks almost every box. He's even Irish.

That said - the one big box he doesn't hit is size. The Giants planned starting QB is almost always a big, tall pocket passer, they don't seem to deviate from that. We'll see if they would for JJ, because otherwise he's everything they want in a QB.

And it isn't hard to imagine him running Daboll's offense. 

I was really buying the hype when he was hired. If you'll recall, he seemed to be near the top of everyone's up-and-coming GM list and had his choice betweens several jobs over a 2 year period. Young guy with a link to Parcells, coming from a team doing everything right and with solid connections.

Right now, the HC appears to be a lame duck and their public dysfunction means they can't hire a respectable coaching staff now.

This may actually be a new low. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, you could argue they're even worse off than they were when Schoen took over.

This game obviously had that big game feel - Giants fans know it well. A Championship Game. Every play huge. Do you ever remember the DET Lions in that type of game? I sure don't.

Campbell showed he wasn't a big game coach. You've got to call these games differently.

I'm seeing this take a lot now. (Pass rusher in round 1.)

It will be fascinating to see which direction they go. When any large corportation (like the Giants, or General Motors) makes a significant financial decision and goes in a strategic direction, very rarely would you see that leadership group pull the plug after 1 year, even if initial results were dreadful. They'd err towards the conservative side, giving it more than enough time to play out.

That's where the Giants are at with Jones. He'll likely come back strong from his ACL and the staff's top priority will be identifying what went wrong with his play and how to fix it. Just 12 months ago, they went through a painstaking evaluation and decided to pay $90M guaranteed. You don't just say "nevermind" now. That's what a commitment is.

If they indeed stick with DJ, developing Neal and infusing the interior OL is a sound strategy. And at WR, simply holding your water and bringing back a 2nd year Hyatt, a fully healed-up Wan'dale Robinson and Darius Slayton is an improved group. (No more wasting reps on Campbell all summer, for example.)

That opens the door for a pass rusher. Put a dominant player on the same DL with Dexter Lawrence and Thibs, and you've got something. Whoever the DC is - that DL with Okereke at MLB and Banks at #1 CB is a solid framework. 

Is this question in relation to Brock Bowers?

Curious to get others' opinion on him. I do not see a special player but I appear to be the only one. I'd be dubious spending a top 10 pick on him. He's listed at 6'4" but I'll be curious to see his measurements at the Combine.

To me, he looks like kind of a run-of-the-mill move TE in the NFL.