The Word is out!

[Bob In PA]

Yes, I get it and to quote Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth.' But Bob, the entire game? I don't blame Jones for not putting the team on his back. He was harassed last night and no QB would play well under those circumstances, but there were many opportunities he missed because as I've said over the years, he crumbles under pressure and big moments. If he's going to run as soon as there's pressure and stop looking downfield, it's on him. If he can't throw on the run, he's scared. Protect this QB and he will slice you up to no tomorrow. If he had been playing for Dallas last night, he would have had a better night than Prescott did. He needs a line like that, Bob, and it doesn't look good.

Ed:  On the NBC telecast, Collinsworth made (and IMO belabored) the point about "speeding up the QB's clock."  THAT is where Jones may have failed last night. It is currently IMO unknown just how much of that failure was related to the cheap shot, so let's just put that issue aside.... 

The discussion this week in the QB room will be easy and obvious... what to do the next time that situation arises. 

You are correct it eventually seemed that Jones "clock" eventually sped up.  But WHY he sped up the clock is unclear.  I won't have enough time to re-watch the game, but when you do, consider this... EITHER the speed-up was involuntary OR it was planned. The coaches may have told him at some point during the second quarter to check only to see if his first option was open and (if not) to then start scrambling immediately.  You'll be able to figure it out from the all-22 but it may be answerable just from the regular replay tapes.

Bob

[MightyGiants]

I wonder how much of the issues with Jones could be the result of the coaches and their offseason focus.  All off-season, the team acquired deep threats and talked about the need to be more explosive.  I agree, but when I considered the fierce pass rush Dallas generates, I thought focusing on the deep stuff in the opening game would be a bad idea.  If ever there was a game to get rid of the ball quickly, it was last night.  Unfortunately, I can't help but feel like the Giants had prepared to unveil their new deep attack offense at the worst possible time.

[Bob In PA]

I wonder how much of the issues with Jones could be the result of the coaches and their offseason focus.  All off-season, the team acquired deep threats and talked about the need to be more explosive.  I agree, but when I considered the fierce pass rush Dallas generates, I thought focusing on the deep stuff in the opening game would be a bad idea.  If ever there was a game to get rid of the ball quickly, it was last night.  Unfortunately, I can't help but feel like the Giants had prepared to unveil their new deep attack offense at the worst possible time.

Rich: In another thread the issue of playing conservatively versus "going for it" just arose.

I (like you) fell on the side of being careful (as they were in the first series) and, while obviously always trying to score) to try as much as possible to do so while also taking time off the clock.

The conservative approach, however, requires what the Giants generally avoided last year... not making game-changing mistakes.  Last night, they just didn't do that and experienced a very rare "daisy-chain" of bad luck and crucial mistakes.  For example, Andrew Thomas' false start (he didn't even have ONE of those all last year) changed the next play to a pass play, which resulted in a bad snap, which required going for a FG, which ended with a blocked try returned for a TD.

Bob

[Rambo89]

I wonder how much of the issues with Jones could be the result of the coaches and their offseason focus.  All off-season, the team acquired deep threats and talked about the need to be more explosive.  I agree, but when I considered the fierce pass rush Dallas generates, I thought focusing on the deep stuff in the opening game would be a bad idea.  If ever there was a game to get rid of the ball quickly, it was last night.  Unfortunately, I can't help but feel like the Giants had prepared to unveil their new deep attack offense at the worst possible time.

Could be the Giants eventually come to the conclusion that opening things up and having a deep passing attack with Daniel Jones is never going to work and that if you're going to be successful with him they have to run a Conservative offense that simplifies things for him and doesn't require him to think on the move.

[MightyGiants]

Could be the Giants eventually come to the conclusion that opening things up and having a deep passing attack with Daniel Jones is never going to work and that if you're going to be successful with him they have to run a Conservative offense that simplifies things for him and doesn't require him to think on the move.

Greg,

So it's Daniel Jones's fault that the offensive line didn't stop the pass rush?  Was it also his fault that a FG attempt got blocked and returned for a TD?   I appreciate you want to be right about your prior negative assessments of Jones but blaming him for the pass rush is a stretch.   

[Bob In PA]

Could be the Giants eventually come to the conclusion that opening things up and having a deep passing attack with Daniel Jones is never going to work and that if you're going to be successful with him they have to run a Conservative offense that simplifies things for him and doesn't require him to think on the move.

Rambo: Again, I agree with your general point 100 percent but believe the focus should not be on Jones (and certainly should not be SOLELY on Jones).

I would say if a decision to "go conservative" is made it would be because this OL is still not good enough to give Jones a chance to throw deep passes. I can't think of even ONE play last night when Jones actually had enough time to throw a deep pass.

My biggest question is... why does it seem like that Giants' offense doesn't have ANY plays in which they keep maximum protection for the QB and just send out two receivers?  I don't know everything about football but I do know that is one way to play it safe while still presenting a threat, particularly if you have a guy like Waller whom almost all football people say is "virtually un-guard-able."

Bob

[Ed Vette]

If anyone saw the Eagles-Pats game, Mack Jones was being pressured and to mitigate it, they threw a lot of screen passes and targeted different sections of the field. They were outmatched but kept it close until the end. Kafka didn't call much of that at all. No play-action passes or flea flickers. How many snaps from Under Center? Once they fell behind 16-0, Kafka called a weak game. This is as much on him as it is on anyone. Didn't even see Hyatt until the 3rd Qtr when they should have gone play action on that first drive. The one pass I recall that he was targeted, he was open by a couple of yards and the pass was behind him. Just a badly called game by Kafka. 

[MightyGiants]

If anyone saw the Eagles-Pats game, Mack Jones was being pressured and to mitigate it, they threw a lot of screen passes and targeted different sections of the field. They were outmatched but kept it close until the end. Kafka didn't call much of that at all. No play-action passes or flea flickers. How many snaps from Under Center? Once they fell behind 16-0, Kafka called a weak game. This is as much on him as it is on anyone. Didn't even see Hyatt until the 3rd Qtr when they should have gone play action on that first drive. The one pass I recall that he was targeted, he was open by a couple of yards and the pass was behind him. Just a badly called game by Kafka. 

Ed,

I think the difference is the Pats knew their O-line couldn't deal with the Eagles rush, so they planned for it.  It doesn't look like the Giants' coaching staff planned on not being able to stop or even slow down the Cowboy's rush.  Game day playbooks are small (30, give or take).   So it's not like the Giants could just pivot when they learned their O-line couldn't hold up.

[Bob In PA]

Ed,

I think the difference is the Pats knew their O-line couldn't deal with the Eagles rush, so they planned for it.  It doesn't look like the Giants' coaching staff planned on not being able to stop or even slow down the Cowboy's rush.  Game day playbooks are small (30, give or take).   So it's not like the Giants could just pivot when they learned their O-line couldn't hold up.

Rich: My conclusion is different. I believe the Cowboys have a defense to rival even the '86 Giants. Bob

[Rambo89]

Greg,

So it's Daniel Jones's fault that the offensive line didn't stop the pass rush?  Was it also his fault that a FG attempt got blocked and returned for a TD?  I appreciate you want to be right about your prior negative assessments of Jones but blaming him for the pass rush is a stretch. 

Rich,

This isn't about whose fault it is or what not as it is putting players and the team in the best position to win and not asking them to do things they aren't capable of.  Playing Conservative and simplifying the offense for Jones led to the Giants winning 9 games and being a playoff team last season.  The Giants may learn in time that opening things up with a pass heavy down field passing offense game in and game out does not play to the strengths of Jones and the team. 

That's not a bad thing especially considering they showed last season that they can be a playoff team playing that way.

Rambo: Again, I agree with your general point 100 percent but believe the focus should not be on Jones (and certainly should not be SOLELY on Jones).

I would say if a decision to "go conservative" is made it would be because this OL is still not good enough to give Jones a chance to throw deep passes. I can't think of even ONE play last night when Jones actually had enough time to throw a deep pass.

My biggest question is... why does it seem like that Giants' offense doesn't have ANY plays in which they keep maximum protection for the QB and just send out two receivers?  I don't know everything about football but I do know that is one way to play it safe while still presenting a threat, particularly if you have a guy like Waller whom almost all football people say is "virtually un-guard-able."

Bob

The focus should be on the entire team including Jones not just on him.  But they may eventually get to the point where they shift trying to be something they aren't.  Maybe they won't.  The positive thing though as I explained to Rich is that they have shown that they can win with a Conservative low risk offense.

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

This isn't about whose fault it is or what not as it is putting players and the team in the best position to win and not asking them to do things they aren't capable of.  Playing Conservative and simplifying the offense for Jones led to the Giants winning 9 games and being a playoff team last season.  The Giants may learn in time that opening things up with a pass heavy down field passing offense game in and game out does not play to the strengths of Jones and the team. 

That's not a bad thing especially considering they showed last season that they can be a playoff team playing that way.

The best QBs to ever have played the game would have struggled last night.  How on earth can you draw conclusions about Jones based on that game?

[Rambo89]

The best QBs to ever have played the game would have struggled last night.  How on earth can you draw conclusions about Jones based on that game?

This isn't about one game.  It's about his entire NFL career.  We'll have to see how the rest of the season plays out but it's something to think about on the topic of the Giants opening up their offense.

[MightyGiants]

This isn't about one game.  It's about his entire NFL career.  We'll have to see how the rest of the season plays out but it's something to think about on the topic of the Giants opening up their offense.

Go back, and there is a post that shows that for multiple years, Jones has been very impressive when throwing deep (albeit on a small sample size).  So I don't think it's correct to claim that Jones is unable to run a more aggressive offense.   I would have agreed if you had said the offensive line didn't allow Jones to throw deep, but you seem determined to try and spin last night that you were "right" in your negative views on Jones

[True Blue]

The OL sucked, Jones Sucked, the WRs sucked, I think Hodgins fumbled twice?

Defense and ST sucked, play calling sucked.

I don't think conclusions can be made about Jones or anyone else with it being such a nightmarish performance all around, no one player is to blame, and no one player is blameless.

[Rambo89]

Go back, and there is a post that shows that for multiple years, Jones has been very impressive when throwing deep (albeit on a small sample size).  So I don't think it's correct to claim that Jones is unable to run a more aggressive offense.  I would have agreed if you had said the offensive line didn't allow Jones to throw deep, but you seem determined to try and spin last night that you were "right" in your negative views on Jones

The problem with him in opening up the offense isn't his physical ability to throw deep its that he doesn't see the whole field and locks onto one receiver telegraphing his throws and being able to adjust consistently.  He's shown that throughout his NFL career which is now in year 5.  It's not just last night.  Maybe that changes as we move along this season.  But it's something to keep an eye on.