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Dan Schneier on the Pick 6

Started by Rambo89, September 11, 2023, 01:35:33 PM

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Rambo89

https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1701242818428129554?s=61

He's not wrong.  There were a number of posters who pointed this out in the Game Thread.
"The Giants will never win a championship with Saquon Barkley" 4/26/18

babywhales

That appears as a fairly easy read, if the CB stays with the WR the throw goes to the flat; however, if the CB drops the WR to sit on the flat, than pump to the flat and hit the WR.

The fumble is on the Barkley as he is responsible for his ball security, but it all started with Jones making the wrong read.

"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has been accomplished."– G.B.S

MightyGiants

I watched the play many times.  The defense is man under, cover 3 (the zone coverage deep and M2M on the underneath stuff.  The corner had Hyatt (I am not 100% sure the number) and Hyatt was supposed to take his defender deep on a go or post.  Campbell is in the slot and was running a crossing slot on the same side. 

Three things happened that turned this play bad.

1)  The corner gave up on his assigned coverage to go after Barkley (I suspect he had seen this play in film study)

2)  Campbell stops running his crosser, which allows his man to get into the action and recover the fumbled ball in the air.

3) After a couple of steps Barkley fumbles the ball.  I am really baffled why they are crediting Barkley's fumble as an interception on Jones.  You can see Barkley clearly makes a football move before coughing up the ball.

Had Campbell followed through and the CB not jumped the route (credit to the CB) the play design created some room for Barkley to potentially make the first down.  This should have been a low risk play
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Ed Vette

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 11, 2023, 01:59:27 PMI watched the play many times.  The defense is man under, cover 3 (the zone coverage deep and M2M on the underneath stuff.  The corner had Hyatt (I am not 100% sure the number) and Hyatt was supposed to take his defender deep on a go or post.  Campbell is in the slot and was running a crossing slot on the same side. 

Three things happened that turned this play bad.

1)  The corner gave up on his assigned coverage to go after Barkley (I suspect he had seen this play in film study)

2)  Campbell stops running his crosser, which allows his man to get into the action and recover the fumbled ball in the air.

3) After a couple of steps Barkley fumbles the ball.  I am really baffled why they are crediting Barkley's fumble as an interception on Jones.  You can see Barkley clearly makes a football move before coughing up the ball.

Had Campbell followed through and the CB not jumped the route (credit to the CB) the play design created some room for Barkley to potentially make the first down.  This should have been a low risk play
You're right on Campbell but why did he throw to Barkley when the X Receiver was uncovered downfield? The pocket was clean and he had plenty of time to see him, but instead, he blindly let it rip and he didn't protect his RB.
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

jgrangers2

Quote from: Ed Vette on September 11, 2023, 02:19:35 PMYou're right on Campbell but why did he throw to Barkley when the X Receiver was uncovered downfield? The pocket was clean and he had plenty of time to see him, but instead, he blindly let it rip and he didn't protect his RB.

This is my biggest issue with Jones and the offense in general. Last year, it was obvious that it was designed to be safe and it's possible that is the same this year. X receiver might have been able to get a first down here. Feels like the kind of throw you have to try in that spot.

B1GBLUE

Quote from: Rambo89 on September 11, 2023, 01:35:33 PMhttps://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1701242818428129554?s=61

He's not wrong.  There were a number of posters who pointed this out in the Game Thread.

Damn, campbell and hodgins were pretty open there. campbell wouldnt have been a first down but hodgins most likely would have. i try to defend jones, but right there was a perfect example of missing open guys and not seeing the field. i get it.. you dont want to get sacked at the 2 yard line. but damn, alot of qb's make that play.

B1GBLUE

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 11, 2023, 01:59:27 PMI watched the play many times.  The defense is man under, cover 3 (the zone coverage deep and M2M on the underneath stuff.  The corner had Hyatt (I am not 100% sure the number) and Hyatt was supposed to take his defender deep on a go or post.  Campbell is in the slot and was running a crossing slot on the same side. 

Three things happened that turned this play bad.

1)  The corner gave up on his assigned coverage to go after Barkley (I suspect he had seen this play in film study)

totally agree..that is a fumble.

2)  Campbell stops running his crosser, which allows his man to get into the action and recover the fumbled ball in the air.

3) After a couple of steps Barkley fumbles the ball.  I am really baffled why they are crediting Barkley's fumble as an interception on Jones.  You can see Barkley clearly makes a football move before coughing up the ball.

Had Campbell followed through and the CB not jumped the route (credit to the CB) the play design created some room for Barkley to potentially make the first down.  This should have been a low risk play

Rambo89

Quote from: jgrangers2 on September 11, 2023, 02:22:24 PMThis is my biggest issue with Jones and the offense in general. Last year, it was obvious that it was designed to be safe and it's possible that is the same this year. X receiver might have been able to get a first down here. Feels like the kind of throw you have to try in that spot.

It felt like Dallas was ready for Jones going to the check down as he typically does rather than down field.  Well played by them on their end and something that Jones needs to be mindful of in those spots and see that.
"The Giants will never win a championship with Saquon Barkley" 4/26/18

kingm56

Quote from: Ed Vette on September 11, 2023, 02:19:35 PMYou're right on Campbell but why did he throw to Barkley when the X Receiver was uncovered downfield? The pocket was clean and he had plenty of time to see him, but instead, he blindly let it rip and he didn't protect his RB.

Missed a chance for a big play there!  DJ has never been adapt at reading the entire field and making quick decision...it's just not his forte.

Trench

Jones locks on a receiver and when the pressure increases he does it even more. This is his biggest issue and it's crystal clear here.

MightyGiants

Quote from: Ed Vette on September 11, 2023, 02:19:35 PMYou're right on Campbell but why did he throw to Barkley when the X Receiver was uncovered downfield? The pocket was clean and he had plenty of time to see him, but instead, he blindly let it rip and he didn't protect his RB.

If you watch when Jones takes his second hand off the ball, Diggs is just starting to release the Hyatt.  The read wasn't as clear cut as some seem to think.
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE

Ed Vette

Quote from: jgrangers2 on September 11, 2023, 02:22:24 PMThis is my biggest issue with Jones and the offense in general. Last year, it was obvious that it was designed to be safe and it's possible that is the same this year. X receiver might have been able to get a first down here. Feels like the kind of throw you have to try in that spot.
If that was Hyatt, it's a TD.
"There is a greater purpose...that purpose is team. Winning, losing, playing hard, playing well, doing it for each other, winning the right way, winning the right way is a very important thing to me... Championships are won by teams who love one another, who respect one another, and play for and support one another."
~ Coach Tom Coughlin

Rambo89

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 11, 2023, 02:48:11 PMIf you watch when Jones takes his second hand off the ball, Diggs is just starting to release the Hyatt.  The read wasn't as clear cut as some seem to think.

The read for the defender on where Jones was going with the ball was clear cut for him with the timing of the hit on Barkley being as perfect as you can have.
"The Giants will never win a championship with Saquon Barkley" 4/26/18

jgrangers2

Quote from: Trench on September 11, 2023, 02:47:59 PMJones locks on a receiver and when the pressure increases he does it even more. This is his biggest issue and it's crystal clear here.

That's not at all what happens here. He starts out looking right then comes back to the left to his check down. Diggs jumps the route, but that might be more Diggs being Diggs than anything else.

Also, somebody noted (can't remember if it was on Twitter or in another thread) that the Giants don't throw a hole lot to the far side of the field. It's possible that the Cowboys knew this and this was Diggs taking a shot that Jones would go check down as soon as there was nothing to the near side. There's also the theory that the read here is to start right and then come back to Saquon if nothing is there and hope he can break something.

MightyGiants

Quote from: Rambo89 on September 11, 2023, 03:01:44 PMThe read for the defender on where Jones was going with the ball was clear cut for him with the timing of the hit on Barkley being as perfect as you can have.

Have you considered this play was already on taoe, giving the defender an edge?

DJ'S head was moving
SMART, TOUGH, DEPENDABLE