@TalkinGiants 6 Plays where DJ left something on the field

[kingm56]

Greg,

I don't disagree you have made that statement and in isolation saying Jones is an average QB isn't negative.  Have you ever looked back on your posts?  How often do you praise Jones compared to criticize him?  How often do you make excuses for other QBs, in an effort to make Jones look bad by comparison? 

I can appreciate your point, but that belief doesn't seem to match how you talk about the man.

Rich,

One minor argument; specifically, your notion about how some posters 'talk about the man.'  I think one point we can universally agree on is DJ is a fine man.  The disagreement stems from our perspective on his ability to play QB, at a high level.

[Rambo89]

Greg,

I don't disagree you have made that statement and in isolation saying Jones is an average QB isn't negative.  Have you ever looked back on your posts?  How often do you praise Jones compared to criticize him?  How often do you make excuses for other QBs, in an effort to make Jones look bad by comparison? 

I can appreciate your point, but that belief doesn't seem to match how you talk about the man.

Now take this logic and apply it to your own view of Jones.  Using that logic I can come to the opposite conclusion with all of the praising Jones posts and rarely if ever criticisms of him. That would lead us all to believe your opinion on Jones is that you believe Jones is an elite level QB.

Do you see the problem with this?

[MightyGiants]

Jones had a horrible game along with the rest of the team. The guy only threw over 200 yards 6 times last year and yet people were expecting the greatest show on turf last night. The expectations for a year 2 rebuild and a Qb who has had only 1 good season out of 4 were completely blown out of proportion all summer.

Couple that with the majority here not wanting to hear a single negative thing about Jones. Even when people were trying to simply say don't read too much into 1 series in the preseason they got their heads ripped off because this was going to be a top 5 offense etc etc while ignoring we have virtually the same Wrs and oline as last year + an aging TE that looks great but can't stay healthy. The warning signs were everywhere but because the media and Fandom have been so tired of losing, its so much easier to just hope things work out and ignore actual criticisms.

There were people who didn't want to hear that Dallas had a really good defense.  They didn't want to hear how potent their pass rush was.  Hell, they believed the Giants would be able to handle Dallas even if Waller missed the game due to injury.


Also there is a distinct difference between growing tired of hyperbolic and excessive criticism of Jones and "not wanting to hear a single negative thing about Jones"

[Ed Vette]

Greg,

I don't disagree you have made that statement and in isolation saying Jones is an average QB isn't negative.  Have you ever looked back on your posts?  How often do you praise Jones compared to criticize him?  How often do you make excuses for other QBs, in an effort to make Jones look bad by comparison? 

I can appreciate your point, but that belief doesn't seem to match how you talk about the man.

This is a football forum where people express their thoughts and share insight. He's not a moderator or an admin where he needs to be balanced. That's the purpose of this site. He's not a troll. He's an intelligent person with a lot of football knowledge and a major contributor to the site. When this place becomes homogeneous, we might as well just shut it down and if we appear too aggressive to each other, who is going to want to post here?

[True Blue]

Greg,

I don't disagree you have made that statement and in isolation saying Jones is an average QB isn't negative.  Have you ever looked back on your posts?  How often do you praise Jones compared to criticize him?  How often do you make excuses for other QBs, in an effort to make Jones look bad by comparison? 

I can appreciate your point, but that belief doesn't seem to match how you talk about the man.

How often does an average middle of the road employee get praised at his place of employment? I imagine not often, while his performance reviews every year highlight areas of improvement compared to top performers.

You are creating something that isn't there, a lack of praise does not equate to negativity. Many here, myself included have expressed optimism, and have given the guy his props when deserved.

I also think DJs character and work ethic is almost unanimously agreed upon as stellar. No one hates the guy, or dislikes him as a person, and everyone here I am sure wants him to excel. We can't just assume a differing opinion, or a perceived lack of praise equate to negativity.

[katkavage]

Everything was a problem last night.  The biggest issue coming out of that game is that every unit played poorly.  That's what I am most concerned about is how uncompetitive they were as a team last night.

One would think it shouldn't be.

It goes back to the point I had last week about their being an insane level of sensitivity any time any criticism of Daniel Jones is brought up.  And to be clear this isn't a shot at any person but rather a theme I've noticed in these discussions.

Yes it was a meltdown on every level last night including the coaching. But one thing I will have zero patience for is making excuses for Daniel Jones. He doesn't play well it's on him. No one else.

[MightyGiants]

Now take this logic and apply it to your own view of Jones.  Using that logic I can come to the opposite conclusion with all of the praising Jones posts and rarely if ever criticisms of him. That would lead us all to believe your opinion on Jones is that you believe Jones is an elite level QB.

Do you see the problem with this?

Greg,

I am pretty sure I have made it abundantly clear I don't think Jones is currently an elite-level QB.  Further, I have stated I don't know his ceiling due to the poor support he has suffered in his career.

Do you want criticism?  That interception on the pass thrown to Waller was reckless and inexcusable.  With the possible exception of the Barkley fumble, I agree with Bobby, he left those plays on the field.

Although I will also add this (something none of the Jones critics have mentioned).  No QB is perfect, they all leave plays on the field, even Mahomes. 

I will also say that this game was just so terrible, that it's not moving the needle on my opinions of Jones one way or the other.  I need to see him under a bit better circumstances before I can decide where he is at and where he is heading.

[Rambo89]

Greg,

I am pretty sure I have made it abundantly clear I don't think Jones is currently an elite-level QB.  Further, I have stated I don't know his ceiling due to the poor support he has suffered in his career.

Do you want criticism?  That interception on the pass thrown to Waller was reckless and inexcusable.  With the possible exception of the Barkley fumble, I agree with Bobby, he left those plays on the field.

Although I will also add this (something none of the Jones critics have mentioned).  No QB is perfect, they all leave plays on the field, even Mahomes. 

I will also say that this game was just so terrible, that it's not moving the needle on my opinions of Jones one way or the other.  I need to see him under a bit better circumstances before I can decide where he is at and where he is heading.

Rich,

I think you are missing my point about making assumptions about someone's overall views and labeling it is something it's not based upon posts.  I wasn't asking you to justify your overall view on Jones.  I was pointing out how if we applied the same logic you used in labeling people anti Jones and applying it to yourself you'd come to the same unfair conclusion.

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

I think you are missing my point about making assumptions about someone's overall views and labeling it is something it's not based upon posts.  I wasn't asking you to justify your overall view on Jones.  I was pointing out how if we applied the same logic you used in labeling people anti Jones and applying it to yourself you'd come to the same unfair conclusion.

Greg,

After what I saw from Jones last season, I have a positive opinion of him.  I think there is a good chance he ends up being top 10 this season (assuming the damn O-line is fixed).  I don't have a ceiling on him yet.  If you want to say I am pro-Jones or supportive of Jones, have at it.

[katkavage]

Greg,

I am pretty sure I have made it abundantly clear I don't think Jones is currently an elite-level QB.  Further, I have stated I don't know his ceiling due to the poor support he has suffered in his career.

Do you want criticism?  That interception on the pass thrown to Waller was reckless and inexcusable.  With the possible exception of the Barkley fumble, I agree with Bobby, he left those plays on the field.

Although I will also add this (something none of the Jones critics have mentioned).  No QB is perfect, they all leave plays on the field, even Mahomes. 

I will also say that this game was just so terrible, that it's not moving the needle on my opinions of Jones one way or the other.  I need to see him under a bit better circumstances before I can decide where he is at and where he is heading.

No, even Mahomes isn't perfect. And I promise I'll cut Jones some slack when he wins a couple of Super Bowls like Mahomes.

[Rambo89]

Greg,

After what I saw from Jones last season, I have a positive opinion of him.  I think there is a good chance he ends up being top 10 this season (assuming the damn O-line is fixed).  I don't have a ceiling on him yet.  If you want to say I am pro-Jones or supportive of Jones, have at it.

So you agree it's unfair to make an assumption and label someone as having a "Jones is elite" or "Jones is a Bad QB" based upon defense, praise or criticism of Jones in a number of threads?

[MightyGiants]

So you agree it's unfair to make an assumption and label someone as having a "Jones is elite" or "Jones is a Bad QB" based upon defense, praise or criticism of Jones in a number of threads?

Greg,

One example sticks out in my mind.  I talked about the need to get the ball out quickly because of the fierce Dallas pass rush.  I can remember your response to that was to say (and I am paraphrasing) that it was a good example of how the Giants don't trust Jones or don't think Jones can be an aggressive QB.

No, even Mahomes isn't perfect. And I promise I'll cut Jones some slack when he wins a couple of Super Bowls like Mahomes.

How does that negate my point that ALL QBs leave plays on the field every game?

[Rambo89]

Rich,

That doesn't answer my question.  You are missing my point.  I am not going to take this discussion any further as its not getting us anywhere.

[Trench]

And Babywhales pointed out a very concerning issue and a very valid one at that. He never said Jones was the biggest problem last night, but you twisted his words to push that. I think you need to be more balanced Rich. Every article that praises Jones, you post. If someone has a negative view you oppose them. Most everyone here was optimistic about Jones' development going into this season. The last thing we want is the David Sills of QB's. The media has been very kind to Jones so far and they have been drinking the Kool-Aid. Jones Wasn't the reason the Giants lost last night. But he was one of the reasons they lost 40-0.

Hey Ed - easy on Sills alright! 😂😂😂😂😂

[Trench]

How can this post be made when you claim not to defend Jones?

Why can't it be a collective team failure? Why is DJ exempt, better yet what did he do to be exempt from criticism last night?

I don't think the loss falls solely on him, I have been consistent in that it was a full on team stinkfest, players and coaches both, no one person is solely to blame for what transpired, no one person can make their team lose in historicaly bad fashion.

I truly don't think anyone is saying he was the biggest problem, he was one of many many different problems last night

If we want to rank the issues, surely the OL would be up there. But as evidenced Jones had some bad moments, so did the WRs, Defense, Specials, no pass rush, bad coverage, no turnovers, missed kick, blocked kick, bad snaps, questionable calls and decisions, list goes on

I'm lost. After the game, Jones blamed himself right away.

I think it's on the coaches more than anyone! They sucked bad