Micah Parsons defends Jones, slams Daboll

[T200]

Here's my primary issue/perspective: you seem to have difficulties with posters who don't share your opinions...   ...that DJ is ascending to become the NFC best QB.   


Mark,

I know you explained it, but frankly, I have trouble accepting the idea that if Jones is (to quote Micah Parsons) a really good player, that drafting him could be considered a "bad picK".

As for your assertion, to be clear (and I am on record multiple times) I am hopeful that Jones will become top 10.   You are not exactly being fair to me (which seems to be a pattern with you and Rambo who not surprisingly loved your attack) to make the hyperbolic (to the point of being inaccurate) claim that I have issue with anyone who doesn't believe that "DJ is ascending to become the best QB in the NFC East"

Look if you and @Rambo89 are starting the season attacking me, it's going to be a very long year.  I ask that the two of you either treat me civilly with the respect I deserve or just leave me alone.  The choice is yours.

There are talent scouts and evaluators who assess talent for a living. And then there's Micah Parsons. Sure, it's a nice sentiment about our QB. But would you hold his statement in high regard if Parsons said Jones was the 5th best QB in the division?

You typically consider the source when evaluating someone's statement(s). What credentials does Parsons hold to make that statement about Jones and why does it hold so much value with you?

[Rambo89]

Here's my primary issue/perspective: you seem to have have difficulties with posters who don't share your opinions  that DJ is ascending to become the NFC best QB. 


Mark,

I know you explained it, but frankly, I have trouble accepting the idea that if Jones is (to quote Micah Parsons) a really good player, that drafting him could be considered a "bad picK".

As for your assertion, to be clear (and I am on record multiple times) I am hopeful that Jones will become top 10.  You are not exactly being fair to me (which seems to be a pattern with you and Rambo who not surprisingly loved your attack) to make the hyperbolic (to the point of being inaccurate) claim that I have issue with anyone who doesn't believe that "DJ is ascending to become the best QB in the NFC East"

Look if you and @Rambo89 are starting the season attacking me, it's going to be a very long year.  I ask that the two of you either treat me civilly with the respect I deserve or just leave me alone.  The choice is yours.

Rich,

The respect/civility goes both ways.  Yesterday, I tried to explain how a hyperbole was being created by unfairly representing positions on Jones.  Rather than acknowledge it you ignored the question and instead choose to deflect justifying your own position on Jones which is not what I was pointing out nor was I asking.  After a few times of trying to reach common ground and it was clear you didn't have an interest in that I moved on. 

Now in this thread Matt is arguing against the Parsons argument about Peyton Manning and it gets spun into him saying something about Jones.  When he clarifies his point you ignore it and instead spin it into something it's not.  I am not sure what more you want us to do.

[MightyGiants]

There are talent scouts and evaluators who assess talent for a living. And then there's Micah Parsons. Sure, it's a nice sentiment about our QB. But would you hold his statement in high regard if Parsons said Jones was the 5th best QB in the division?

You typically consider the source when evaluating someone's statement(s). What credentials does Parsons hold to make that statement about Jones and why does it hold so much value with you?

Tim,

I did consider the source.  Traditionally NFL pass rushers are not very fond of QBs.  In fact, many of them would brag about their dislike or disdain for QBs.  I was surprised to hear Parsons singing DJ's praises and calling out the Giants coaches for not protecting DJ and the fanbase for not supporting DJ.

[kingm56]

There are talent scouts and evaluators who assess talent for a living. And then there's Micah Parsons. Sure, it's a nice sentiment about our QB. But would you hold his statement in high regard if Parsons said Jones was the 5th best QB in the division?

You typically consider the source when evaluating someone's statement(s). What credentials does Parsons hold to make that statement about Jones and why does it hold so much value with you?

Tim,

IMO, we should give the same credence to Parson's statements as we do to Shannon Sharp, who has a negative view regarding DJ. Both are marred by individual perceptions.  If you just google current NFL QB ranking, and view the first 2 pages, DJ average is #16 of 32:https://www.google.com/search?q=nfl+current+qb+rankings&rlz=1C1FKPE_enUS981US981&oq=nfl+current+qb+rankings&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l9.3998j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

PFF has him at #17 and NFL QB Index has him at #18.  PFF is often used here to justify our narratives; thus, should I give that source more credence?  In short, I prefer to eliminate all the noise and focus on the objective data. 

[MightyGiants]

There are talent scouts and evaluators who assess talent for a living. And then there's Micah Parsons. Sure, it's a nice sentiment about our QB. But would you hold his statement in high regard if Parsons said Jones was the 5th best QB in the division?

You typically consider the source when evaluating someone's statement(s). What credentials does Parsons hold to make that statement about Jones and why does it hold so much value with you?

Here is some more background.  It's not like Parsons sings the praise of all his division QBs

Parsons asked, "Is it Hurts or the team?" Miller responded, "I think it's a little bit of both, man."

"I'm not trying to make no enemies," Parsons said, (H/T SB Nation). "I just love the game so much. And I understand it so much that, like, I can't — when things are off, I just can't hold it in. I almost gotta say something."

Parsons did say Hurts is "good," but may have said enough to give the QB -- along with the rest of his team -- some bulletin board material.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cowboys-micah-parsons-walks-back-jalen-hurts-hype-comments-im-probably-most-hated-man-in-philadelphia/#:~:text=Parsons%20asked%2C%20%22Is%20it%20Hurts,can't%20hold%20it%20in.

[Rambo89]

Tim,

I did consider the source.  Traditionally NFL pass rushers are not very fond of QBs.  In fact, many of them would brag about their dislike or disdain for QBs.  I was surprised to hear Parsons singing DJ's praises and calling out the Giants coaches for not protecting DJ and the fanbase for not supporting DJ.

Where did Parson's in his comments say anything about the Giants fan base and their support for Daniel Jones?  I don't see anywhere in his comments where he directly calls out Giants fans.

[T200]

Tim,

I did consider the source.  Traditionally NFL pass rushers are not very fond of QBs.  In fact, many of them would brag about their dislike or disdain for QBs.  I was surprised to hear Parsons singing DJ's praises and calling out the Giants coaches for not protecting DJ and the fanbase for not supporting DJ.

Fair enough. I just don't recall players putting other players down unless there was some personal beef.

Take the 9ers/Steelers game. Patrick Peterson said Brock Purdy has a *tell*...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CxD_YnGR41s/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Most NFL players aren't going to call out another player. They're being respectful and not providing bulletin board material.

[DaveBrown74]

I must say, I find it very curious that when a reputable publication like The Athletic compiles a group of 50 actively employed NFL GMs, scouts, and coaches and has them collectively rate all the starting QBs, and Jones' aggregate rating among all these individuals is not very high (outside the top 20), that ranking gets immediately rebuked here and basically thrown out and called "flawed."

Same with when an ex-player who actually played Jones' position (Orlovsky) professionally is non-complimentary. That gets immediately tossed out as well, and the individual is classified as a "hater."

But when a single player with no coaching, scouting, or front office experience and who plays a totally different position on the other side of the ball says Jones is good, it's suddenly a big deal and seen to be highly credible and that any push-back against the source is pretty much unwarranted.


Is it just me, or does that seem pretty inconsistent?

[MightyGiants]

Where did Parson's in his comments say anything about the Giants fan base and their support for Daniel Jones?  I don't see anywhere in his comments where he directly calls out Giants fans.

He directed his comment at, "Some of you".  Why do you assume that excluded Giants fans?

For fuller context here is the full sentence

"Some of you may think that he's a bad quarterback and why'd they sign him?"

Considering that right up to the signing, there were many fans calling for the Giants not to sign Jones, I don't think I would exclude fans among the people Parson was speaking to.

[T200]

Here is some more background.  It's not like Parsons sings the praise of all his division QBs


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/cowboys-micah-parsons-walks-back-jalen-hurts-hype-comments-im-probably-most-hated-man-in-philadelphia/#:~:text=Parsons%20asked%2C%20%22Is%20it%20Hurts,can't%20hold%20it%20in.

Even in your source, it said Parsons stated Hurts is 'good'... so it looks like he does praise division opponents when asked. 

[MightyGiants]

I must say, I find it very curious that when a reputable publication like The Athletic compiles a group of 50 actively employed NFL GMs, scouts, and coaches and has them collectively rate all the starting QBs, and Jones' aggregate rating among all these individuals is not very high (outside the top 20), that ranking gets immediately rebuked here and basically thrown out and called "flawed."

Jeff,

In an effort to provide better framing, the issue was that the same group had listed Jones as the worst QB in 2022 which was clearly wrong. 

Your efforts to frame pointing out prior failings of a polling system is not as you suggest just throwing it because the results were not agreeable.  It's about evaluating quality based on prior performance.

An analogy to your framing efforts would accuse a potential patient who passed on a doctor of agism (because the doctor is over 70) while ignoring the 2 dozen malpractice suits the doctor is facing.

[Rambo89]

He directed his comment at, "Some of you".  Why do you assume that excluded Giants fans?

For fuller context here is the full sentence

"Some of you may think that he's a bad quarterback and why'd they sign him?"

Considering that right up to the signing, there were many fans calling for the Giants not to sign Jones, I don't think I would exclude fans among the people Parson was speaking to.

Some of you is vague and not directed at anyone in particular.  It could mean anyone.  It's an assumption it means Giants fans only if it helps the narrative that a person wants. 

[Philosophers]

Is DJ a bad quarterback? Not in Parsons' mind.

"Daniel Jones is not a bad quarterback," he said. "Some of you may think that he's a bad quarterback and why'd they sign him? You have to remember, Daniel Jones just went against a top-3 defense. They're still learning to gel together. . . It's only his second year with Brian Daboll. He gets grace. I think nowadays we don't give the same grace as we (did) with guys like Peyton Manning when they came into the league.

"The reality is, he's a really good player."

Parsons is the friggin enemy yet he sees and realizes that DJ is under siege and can no way play well when his OL sucks.  Why cant some of the fans here see it?   

[GloryDays]

You know, coming out, there were character concerns.  Statements like this one make me wonder why.  The Giants supposedly had an "in" with the Penn State program in the form of "coach Chaos," and yet they traded down rather than drafting him.  I have to think that was a character rather than a talent issue.

Rich, I remember at the time he was only considered as a Mike backer and Judge and co I believe did not want to get a Mike that high.. a bunch of us wanted Parsons and that WR that Filthy jumped up to get before our pick... but when he was there and we traded down it was a disappointment because even at Mike, he was a special one!

[kingm56]

Jeff,

In an effort to provide better framing, the issue was that the same group had listed Jones as the worst QB in 2022 which was clearly wrong. 

Your efforts to frame pointing out prior failings of a polling system is not as you suggest just throwing it because the results were not agreeable.  It's about evaluating quality based on prior performance.

An analogy to your framing efforts would accuse a potential patient who passed on a doctor of agism (because the doctor is over 70) while ignoring the 2 dozen malpractice suits the doctor is facing.

Rich,

You're missing the bigger point, which is the Atlantic was summerly dismissed when it listed DJ as the #30th QB, but used as a source the following year when it offered an opinion more aligned with preferred narratives. Another example is Mike Lombardi: when he has a negative view of DJ, we're told to dismiss said view because ML is known 'Giants/DJ hater.'  However, the very same posters who categized Lombardi as a failed GM and/or Giants hater, quote him when he makes a point that aligns with thier narrative.  The primary point: who care's what any of them have to say...reality isn't based on opinion.