A dose of reality

[kingm56]

After Monday's beating, posters are starting to question the coaching staff abilities. While I completely agree the staff deserves criticism, I must ask a fundamental question: are our expectations for the 2023 Giants too high? Was our perspective skewed by late victories against Hou, Ind and Minn? Do we have the talent to compete with Phili and Dal? When you analyze our last 12 contest, you realize the Giants have been a bad team for multiple months now.  Maybe we should have criticized the coaches in the offseason, vice listing them as an asset?  Do we put this on the coaches, or do we still have a talent void?

4-7-1

The Giants lost by more than 8 points in 8 of 12 games
The Giants lost by more than double-digits in 9 of 12 games
The Giants were outscored 50 points
In the Giants first 7 games, they faced 1 top 10 offense; in thier final 12, they faced 6 top 10 offenses

I still believe we're in 8 win team this season (+/- 1), and I still believe we're on the right trajectory, regardless of the win total.

[Rambo89]

This isn't a week one overreaction for me.  I thought going into the season they'd take a step back and go 7-10/8-9.  I didn't see it as a bad sign either considering the strength of schedule and looking at the number of one score games they won in 2022.

I do think you are correct that there were some who set unrealistic expectations for this team with the 10+ win predictions not recognizing the issues that still existed with this roster.

[MightyGiants]

After Monday's beating, posters are starting to question the coaching staff abilities. While I completely agree the staff deserves criticism, I must ask a fundamental question: are our expectations for the 2023 Giants too high? Was our perspective skewed by late victories against Hou, Ind and Minn? Do we have the talent to compete with Phili and Dal? When you analyze our last 12 contest, you realize the Giants have been a well-below average team:

4-7-1

The Giants lost by more than 8 points in 8 of 12 games
The Giants lost by more than double-digits in 9 of 12 games
The Giants were outscored 50 points
In the Giants first 7 games, they faced 1 top 10 offense; in thier final 12, they faced 6 top 10 offenses

I still believe we're in 8/9 win team this season; however, It would not shock me if they won as few as 7 games. 

There could be an argument made that the failure of Schoen's first draft class to take the anticipated year 2 jump is at the heart of many of the problems.  High first-round picks you expect very good play from.  You anticipate solid starters from your day 2 picks.  If that had happened, this team would be pretty sound.  Instead:

1)  Kayvon Thibodeaux- not as impactful as a 5th overall edge rusher should be

2) Evan Neal- would be a disappointment if drafted in round 7 much less 7th overall

3) Wan' Dale Robinson (43)-  INCOMPLETE injury recovery

4) Joshua Ezeudu (67)-  Not good, not good at all that he couldn't beat out Glowinski (who clearly has age-related decline)

5) Cor'Dale Flott (81)-  Between injuries and ability hasn't produced as hoped

Of the rest, Bellinger (maybe McFadden) had shown signs of being solid contributors.

If we want to look at why this team was over-estimated, front and center was the assumption last year's draft picks would step up.

[B1GBLUE]

After Monday's beating, posters are starting to question the coaching staff abilities. While I completely agree the staff deserves criticism, I must ask a fundamental question: are our expectations for the 2023 Giants too high? Was our perspective skewed by late victories against Hou, Ind and Minn? Do we have the talent to compete with Phili and Dal? When you analyze our last 12 contest, you realize the Giants have been a bad team.  Maybe we should have criticized the coaches in the offseason, vice listing them as an asset? 

4-7-1


The Giants lost by more than 8 points in 8 of 12 games
The Giants lost by more than double-digits in 9 of 12 games
The Giants were outscored 50 points
In the Giants first 7 games, they faced 1 top 10 offense; in thier final 12, they faced 6 top 10 offenses

I still believe we're in 8 win team this season (+/- 1), and I still believe we're on the right trajectory, regardless of the win total.

of course its too high. we played well and made the playoffs last year. we got lucky bounces. im not gonna say it was a fluke, but it was certainly lucky. we werent, and still arent in a position to be contenders. and at the end of the day everyone knew/knows that. we're at least a year away from being a truly top 5-7 team.

until we can go toe to toe with the great teams, and WIN IN OUR DIVISON, we are an afterthought.

[Ed Vette]

Before training camp I think I was looking at a 7-8 win season because of the schedule. My observations there led me to up it to 10 wins. I truly believe the lack of game time and the rotation of the Oline hurt the progress of this team. I said that the first game wasn't a must win if the game was close. I was expecting a close game. The game plan and rust set them back to PS game 4. Now they have this beating in their heads and that's hard to get past. Some of these players have to doubt themselves. I see a seven win season at this point.

[babywhales]

The Giants played a top tier defense in Week 1 in the pouring rain and completely xxxx the bed. No excuses, they were horrid and the Giants coaching staff did not have them ready and should be embarrassed.

That being said the last year, and this year are completely different teams and despite the reality of the numbers for the way the coaching staff navigated last year's schedule with the severely lacking roster they have earned accommodation and nothing else

And no IMO they can not compete with Philli and Dallas in their current state.

[Ed Vette]

There could be an argument made that the failure of Schoen's first draft class to take the anticipated year 2 jump is at the heart of many of the problems.  High first-round picks you expect very good play from.  You anticipate solid starters from your day 2 picks.  If that had happened, this team would be pretty sound.  Instead:

1)  Kayvon Thibodeaux- not as impactful as a 5th overall edge rusher should be

2) Evan Neal- would be a disappointment if drafted in round 7 much less 7th overall

3) Wan' Dale Robinson (43)-  INCOMPLETE injury recovery

4) Joshua Ezeudu (67)-  Not good, not good at all that he couldn't beat out Glowinski (who has clearly has age-related decline)

5) Cor'Dale Flott (81)-  Between injuries and ability hasn't produced as hoped

Of the rest, Bellinger (maybe McFadden) had shown signs of being solid contributors.

If we want to look at why this team was over-estimated, front and center was the assumption last year's draft picks would step up.

That's a good possibility and a very bad scenario. Two busts in the first round especially.

[Ed Vette]

The Giants played a top tier defense in Week 1 in the pouring rain and completely xxxx the bed. No excuses, they were horrid and the Giants coaching staff did not have them ready and should be embarrassed.

That being said the last year, and this year are completely different teams and despite the reality of the numbers for the way the coaching staff navigated last year's schedule with the severely lacking roster they have earned accommodation and nothing else

And no IMO they can not compete with Philli and Dallas in their current state.

The disturbing thing Chris is that the struggling players and Units I.E. Oline, Pass Rush and QB are all the same players as LY.

[kingm56]

The Giants played a top tier defense in Week 1 in the pouring rain and completely xxxx the bed. No excuses, they were horrid and the Giants coaching staff did not have them ready and should be embarrassed.

That being said the last year, and this year are completely different teams and despite the reality of the numbers for the way the coaching staff navigated last year's schedule with the severely lacking roster they have earned accommodation and nothing else

And no IMO they can not compete with Philli and Dallas in their current state.

I think that's my point, Chris. While the Cowboys game was embarrassing, it's one game, in a vacuum.  However, when you pull back and look at the trajectory we've been on for 13 weeks, it should concern the most optimistic fan.  Moreover, I disagree that we're a dramatically different team; in fact, I believe it's just the opposite.  The Giants are returning 8 of 11 offensive starters; the core group of players remain unchanged.  With that in mind, do the offensive coaches have enough talent to be successful?

[kingm56]

There could be an argument made that the failure of Schoen's first draft class to take the anticipated year 2 jump is at the heart of many of the problems.  High first-round picks you expect very good play from.  You anticipate solid starters from your day 2 picks.  If that had happened, this team would be pretty sound.  Instead:

1)  Kayvon Thibodeaux- not as impactful as a 5th overall edge rusher should be

2) Evan Neal- would be a disappointment if drafted in round 7 much less 7th overall

3) Wan' Dale Robinson (43)-  INCOMPLETE injury recovery

4) Joshua Ezeudu (67)-  Not good, not good at all that he couldn't beat out Glowinski (who has clearly has age-related decline)

5) Cor'Dale Flott (81)-  Between injuries and ability hasn't produced as hoped

Of the rest, Bellinger (maybe McFadden) had shown signs of being solid contributors.

If we want to look at why this team was over-estimated, front and center was the assumption last year's draft picks would step up.

All fair points, Rich.  Although, I think Thibs has been a far better player than he gets credit for; Neal is incredibly concerning though.

[Messiah717]

2021 1-5 versus the NFC East
2022 1-5 versus the NFC East
2023 0-1 so far versus the NFC East

Throw in the playoff loss to Philly and they're 2-12 versus the division the past 14 games.  Until that changes we can't be taken seriously.

[kingm56]

2021 1-5 versus the NFC East
2022 1-5 versus the NFC East
2023 0-1 so far versus the NFC East

Throw in the playoff loss to Philly and they're 2-12 versus the division the past 14 games.  Until that changes we can't be taken seriously.

Worse, with the exception of the Commanders, most of the games have been beatdowns, including to Phili 2x last year.  Dal can apparently run the ball at will against us, over the last 4 games, they've nearly attained a 5.5 YPC. We still have a massive talent gap to close, especially with Phili. 

[ViewFromSection129]

This isn't a week one overreaction for me.  I thought going into the season they'd take a step back and go 7-10/8-9.  I didn't see it as a bad sign either considering the strength of schedule and looking at the number of one score games they won in 2022.

I do think you are correct that there were some who set unrealistic expectations for this team with the 10+ win predictions not recognizing the issues that still existed with this roster.

Could not agree more.  I have predicted 8-9 all offseason based on the same reasons you stated above.

[babywhales]

The disturbing thing Chris is that the struggling players and Units I.E. Oline, Pass Rush and QB are all the same players as LY.

I'll agree the Oline guard and RT situation is a big deal, the pass rush I am honestly uncertain about, and the QB decision making and the trend to play it save when under pressure (the moment and physical pass rush) and when no pressure exist toward check downs despite the better option being on the field is also a worry. 

I feel the team can develop and nicely at that; however, the schedule does not layout in a manner that will make the W's easy to come by. 

[Trench]

I was calling out Thibs all season last year and got blasted here. My reasoning was he has one basic move and he seems to be easily blocked by one single lineman.

The public call out by Wink cemented it for me. This guy is very concerning this far.