A dose of reality

[MightyGiants]

I was calling out Thibs all season last year and got blasted here. My reasoning was he has one basic move and he seems to be easily blocked by one single lineman.

The public call out by Wink cemented it for me. This guy is very concerning this far.

Fair points, I am willing to give a rookie some leeway.  I do expect 2nd year players to have added a move or two.

[DaveBrown74]

When rookies with high expectations are significantly underwhelming, I feel better when I at least see some positive signs later in the season than if I see zero improvement. With Thibs, we got that. He had one or two excellent games and in general looked better late last season. His rookie year trajectory was similar to Andrew Thomas'.

[Jclayton92]

When rookies with high expectations are significantly underwhelming, I feel better when I at least see some positive signs later in the season than if I see zero improvement. With Thibs, we got that. He had one or two excellent games and in general looked better late last season. His rookie year trajectory was similar to Andrew Thomas'.

I believe his passion rush win rate was the best of all rookies. I think he was just going against Tyrone Smith or Steele all night.

[kingm56]

I believe his passion rush win rate was the best of all rookies. I think he was just going against Tyrone Smith or Steele all night.

It was; you can also directly contribute two of the Giants nine wins directly to his play...he made the All-rookie team too.  He seems to be guilty of not being Micah Parsons. 

[Philosophers]

This isn't a week one overreaction for me.  I thought going into the season they'd take a step back and go 7-10/8-9.  I didn't see it as a bad sign either considering the strength of schedule and looking at the number of one score games they won in 2022.

I do think you are correct that there were some who set unrealistic expectations for this team with the 10+ win predictions not recognizing the issues that still existed with this roster.

100% right.

[Philosophers]

After Monday's beating, posters are starting to question the coaching staff abilities. While I completely agree the staff deserves criticism, I must ask a fundamental question: are our expectations for the 2023 Giants too high? Was our perspective skewed by late victories against Hou, Ind and Minn? Do we have the talent to compete with Phili and Dal? When you analyze our last 12 contest, you realize the Giants have been a bad team for multiple months now.  Maybe we should have criticized the coaches in the offseason, vice listing them as an asset?  Do we put this on the coaches, or do we still have a talent void?

4-7-1

The Giants lost by more than 8 points in 8 of 12 games
The Giants lost by more than double-digits in 9 of 12 games
The Giants were outscored 50 points
In the Giants first 7 games, they faced 1 top 10 offense; in thier final 12, they faced 6 top 10 offenses

I still believe we're in 8 win team this season (+/- 1), and I still believe we're on the right trajectory, regardless of the win total.

Summed up well. 

[kingm56]

Summed up well. 

Thanks, Brother.

[Stringer Bell]

I believe his passion rush win rate was the best of all rookies. I think he was just going against Tyrone Smith or Steele all night.

Pass rush win rate has to be one of the most meaningless stats around. Beating his guy is only part of his job, and it's the part that has the least impact on the game.

Does he make tackles? Does he get sacks? Great win rate or not, KT only had 4 sacks last year. I'll take a much lower win rate and actually have him make plays.

[Jclayton92]

Pass rush win rate has to be one of the most meaningless stats around. Beating his guy is only part of his job, and it's the part that has the least impact on the game.

Does he make tackles? Does he get sacks? Great win rate or not, KT only had 4 sacks last year. I'll take a much lower win rate and actually have him make plays.

I would as well, I was simply pointing out that he still affected games last year as a rookie.

[True Blue]

Pass rush win rate has to be one of the most meaningless stats around. Beating his guy is only part of his job, and it's the part that has the least impact on the game.

Does he make tackles? Does he get sacks? Great win rate or not, KT only had 4 sacks last year. I'll take a much lower win rate and actually have him make plays.

So you don't think having a guy put pressure on a QB doesn't still impact their passes or performance? Only sacks affect a QBs play?

I guess we can only complain about our OL against the Cowboys for just the 7 plays that ended in sacks, and not the constant pressure every other play

[Stringer Bell]

So you don't think having a guy put pressure on a QB doesn't still impact their passes or performance? Only sacks affect a QBs play?

That's why win rate is basically worthless. It does not measure pressure on the QB - that is a completely different, and much more valuable metric (pressures). Win rate only measures whether or not a player beats his man. Just because they beat their man does not mean they generates pressure.

I guess we can only complain about our OL against the Cowboys for just the 7 plays that ended in sacks, and not the constant pressure every other play

.

Not at all what I said. But you're mistaken if you think win rate is going to tell that full story. That would be pressures.