Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 04:09:47 PMWell it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth

May I ask who made the false statement?

Here is the quote

"I think the term "we are not a qb away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Are you ready to apologize?

or double down?

choose

I'll wait

Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 10:25:22 AMYou're claiming the absence of a statement must mean it's true!? If I proclaim Evan Neal is a terrible RT, does that automatically equate to him being the sole reason for the Giants failures?

Also, where does it say in those statements that DJ won't become an AP by the time he's 35?  I mean, if the absence of a statement is evidence of intent, we can make anything up...

Is it really the absence of a statement? or maybe all I had to do was research the point, which I would encourage you to do.

Here is your quote

"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Let me know when you're ready to apologize?

or do you want to double down on your position?

Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 10:22:17 AMThank you. Case closed.

Is the case really closed? or maybe you haven't actually researched the point?

Here is your quote:

"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Let me know when you're ready to apologize?

Or do you want to keep up your position?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 15, 2024, 10:20:25 AMYou can't support your actual point, so instead you demand someone prove a negative?

Let's break this down quickly: you asserted people on the board are pinning it all on Jones based on a quote which didn't actually support that prospect, got that pointed out, continued to provide some random quotes which similarly didn't support your point. But instead of conceding, you double-down by requesting that others prove that people didn't assert your point?

Sorry, but that's not how it works. Either you can back up what you assert or you can't. Pretty clear where we've landed on that right now.

It saddens me when you make a claim, then do absolutely no research on the point and then double down on your position like you actually know.

However, It actually works in my favor because it exposes your faulty line of reasoning.

Here are the quotes that back up exactly what I have said, are you ready?

"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."

Let me know when you're ready to apologize?

or do you want to keep it up?

Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 12:19:36 AMCan you please point out where any of that it says "it is ALL on Jones"??

If not, please don't put words in people's mouths. There is not a fan on this forum who believes everything is Jones fault.

Can you please show me in the quotes where it doesn't say that he isn't?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 14, 2024, 04:15:42 PMA comment that Jones "stinks" does not equate to putting all the blame on him for the Giants' shortcomings.

Here are some more quotes for you:

"Just pathetic. If they think I am paying money to watch this, they have another thing coming. No idea why they are trying so bad to make fetch happen with Jones. The guy clearly sucks."

"Also don't mind the banter. Some people just don't like to be wrong that is all. Jones stinks."

"Not to mention Zak Wilson was a back-up last year, and he is a better QB than Jones; so is Darnold for that matter."

"Whereas here, the emperor is not wearing any clothes and mara loves Daniel Jones, so we have to endure yet another year of excuses for Daniel Jones."

"It is like I am in the twilight zone when it comes to Giants fans and Daniel Jones. I cannot think of one player in my sports watching lifetime -- IN ANY SPORT-- where there was such a dedication to a player who so clearly sucks."

Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 01:34:37 PMThis is factually incorrect. Not ONE PERSON has PUT "ALL the blame" on his shoulders!....not ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT. Ever.

Hi,

You may not be aware of this, but here is a direct quote from a poster just a few months ago, and this is what he said about DJ.

"Well what do you want me to call them? Never in all my life do I remember a fanbase of any NY sports franchise; Football, baseball; hockey ; and Basketball so devoted to a player who so obviously just stinks! Can you name one? ... I can't."

There are many more comments like this, but I think you get the point.

I also remember something Tom Coughlin said when certain players were complaining about the fans booing.

Coughlin said "Then don't give them a chance to boo."

If you play well the boos will disappear, it's that simple.

Everyone here has a different opinion regarding DJ.

And in the end it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, the only thing that matters is how he and the Giants play during the regular season.

If he plays well and the Giants start winning again, the negative and critical comments will disappear, and he will remain the starting QB.

If he plays poorly, and the team continues to lose, then he will be released and a new QB will be brought in.

We will just have to see how this transpires.

I personally think maybe this topic should be pinned and held up for the entire year so that everyone can see that CBS sports had Daniel Jones ranked as the 32nd worst QB in the entire NFL.

And

Then after the 2024 season is completed everyone will see where Daniel Jones truly ranked, and if CBS sports should ever be taken seriously again, or if they were truly right on the money?

Only time will tell.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 08, 2024, 04:49:45 PMSome around here have argued he was top-10 in 2022, largely based on his QBR that season (he was 6th and largely so due to running contribution). But to me, 2022 would not be good enough in 2024 because it would be a "top-10" season by efficiency. Again, my point was that it hinges somewhat on the "top-10" season we're talking about. If 2024 is like 2022, that "top-10" performance doesn't do the trick.

Hi,

May I ask a hypothetical question.

Let's say he puts up similar numbers to his 2022 season, and the Giants make the NFC conference finals but lose that game.

Do they bring DJ back the following year?

Curious your thoughts?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 08, 2024, 05:33:06 PMI respectfully beg to differ. Last August there were people on this board arguing that the Giants were going to be "something special this year." I don't think any of those folks, or even a number who were less emphatic but still cautiously optimistic, would have told you last August that the Giant would go 0-5 in those five games.

Hi Dave,

This is not to challenge you in any way, but I do remember there were quite a few posters saying that the Giants could actually be a better team in 2023, but their record may actually be worse.

The reason why they were saying that was because the first six games of the season were absolutely brutal, and they were.

The schedule didn't begin to soften until week seven.

By the way this doesn't justify the poor record that they had, or the year, so please carry on.

For those who are advocating for Drew Lock, and making the case that he is a better QB than Daniel Jones, I would kindly ask you to look at both players entire career stats and not just a few games.

Both players were drafted in 2019.

Here are Drew Locks career stats.

59.7% 5283 Yards 28 TD 23 Int 79.3 RTG

Now here are Daniel Jones career stats, including rushing totals.

64.3% 14,426 Yards 75 TD 40 Int 85.2 RTG

As you can see it's not even close, Daniel Jones is the superior QB.

No one can force any of you to change your mind, but you may just want to reconsider your position.

Daniel Jones will be the day one starter, while Drew Lock will be sitting on the bench.

Take care.

Quote from: LennG on May 05, 2024, 04:29:45 PMIn the other thread about Eli, if memory serves, you were sort of complaining that people were 'cheery picking' about Eli and ONE year with a bad OL. Well, aren't you guilty of the same thing when you continually bring up the ONE year Jones had a decent enough year, 2022? For the most part, in most of the other years, Jones had been bad, in fact, worse than bad, awful would be a better term.
I'm not picking on you, but this has been a constant with people who think Jones is good and all he needs is a good OL, great WRs, and a good running game to be successful. As Dave said, he really needs to change his approach to the game. He simply doesn't even look downfield anymore, he puts the ball way and runs way too often, especially for an injury-prone QB. He still stares down too many receivers and just opts to dump it off just way too often.
PLUS, who says our OL will be that much better this year? All we can do is hope.

Hi Lenn,

Thank you so much for your expressions and how you feel and thank you for saying that you are not picking on me, as I do appreciate that.

I have kind of said what I needed to say in the other thread, but I will leave you with these comments that may help to see where I am coming from.

You may feel that Daniel Jones only had one good year in 2022, but I believe he also played well in 2019, which was his rookie year. As he threw for 24 TDs to 12 Int's.

So, I would say he has had two good years, and not just one.

I would also say that in 2020, 2021, and 2023 were not good years for him, but he has only played in five seasons. 

Eli Manning on the other hand played from 2004-2018, that is eighteen years of football, so a big difference.

Do I think Daniel Jones is an elite QB? No, I do not.

But can he bounce back from last year? Absolutely.

However, considering the situation of where the Giants were picking from, I do believe that they made the right call in drafting an elite WR, to pair up with DJ, instead of taking the 4th or 5th best QB left on the board. 

That is where I stand.

However, in the end, what everyone thinks is just an opinion. The proof will be in the pudding and the eating thereof.

If Daniel Jones is too make it, this year he needs to produce, and so does the team.

However, if he doesn't produce, he is out, but, if he does produce then he will continue to be the starting QB of the New York Giants.

but only time will tell.

Please be well and take care.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 05, 2024, 02:39:41 PMMy personal view:

1. I think Jones would need to have another injury-free year like he did in 2022. Missing one game with a mild ankle sprain wouldn't be the end of the world, but he can't have another season where he misses multiple games with a significant injury, as he has in four out of his five seasons in this league.

2. The team will need to have at least a decent season. Of course, this isn't all on Jones, but given QB is the most important position, I think he'll have a hard time being brought back if they have another season with fewer than 8 or 9 wins. He'd have to have an insanely productive season and they'd need to lose a lot of 38-35, shootout type games for this to not be the case.

3. He will need to be a legitimately productive passer. Absolute bare bones minimum of 3800 passing yards and 25 passing TDs. No excuses. He's getting paid too much to be a dink and dunk, 3200 yard/15 TD guy, and they know it.

4. Ball security: Max of 11/12 INTs if his passing TDs are in the 25-29 range, and a max of 14/15 if he's above 30 passing TDs. Fumbles need to be low/mid single digits again.

5. Risk appetite: Jones will need to take more risky shots downfield and not always opt for the closest receiver. Tyrod Taylor did it last year on the same team, and with Nabers and better O linemen Jones needs to do it this year.

6. Pocket/rush awareness: Jones will have to show marked improvement in this area.


Personally, I think all of the above will need to happen for the Giants to want to keep him beyond this season. Right now I believe he is on the outside looking in. He will have to have a significantly better season than he has ever had to be brought back. The economics just don't work otherwise.

I don't think a statistical repeat of his 2022 season will be enough in year six. They gave him the contract after that year with the hope that he would build on that performance and make further strides, not that he'd settle into that productivity level for the long haul.

Dave,

By the way I like what you have presented, however may I play devil's advocate for a minute?

Let's say DJ puts up a statistical season like 2022, but the Giants go all the way to the NFC Conference Finals, but they lose.

They would be drafting either pick 29th or 30th.

If that is the case, in order to draft a new QB they would need one of the top teams to trade out.

Then the Giants would have to give up the farm to get that guy, if they are able to.

Or in this situation do you think it is wiser to hold onto DJ for another year?

Curious your thoughts?