Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: True Blue on October 16, 2023, 10:51:04 AMif DJ played you would not have discredited those 3 points.

Anyway, 6 points is double what DJ scored against Dallas and Seattle combined. So maybe the bar is set there?

Lol. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the inaneness of it all.

Quote from: katkavage on October 16, 2023, 09:46:54 AMThey are interchangeable pretty much. The Giants need to somehow find a top tier QB. They just don't have one on their roster now.

That's my takeaway we well. At least with Tyrod we don't have to hear about how all the players around him failed him.

Let's keep in mind the majority of Saquon's yards came on two carries in the 4th quarter. Other than those two carries he was ineffective last night with 40 yards on 22 carries. Considering Buffalo's run defense hasn't been that great, they did what they had to do to shut down Barkley. Not sure how much of that was on Barkley's ankle.

Taylor did much better at managing the game than I would've expected Jones to do. If Jones is back there I think the Buffalo pass rush would've been more effective and the game would've looked a lot different.

Having said that, Taylor is not the answer for this team. He's just a cheap bridge for a franchise in need of an answer at QB.

Oddly, the makeshift OL played better with Taylor out there. Nothing to do with the QB, though. <sarcasm>

Yes, Kent Graham is an improvement over Danny Kanell it seems.

I am saying this team is completely inept. Improving the blocking and tackling are important steps forward but they don't mean the lack of talent at positions that aren't required to block and tackle aren't major areas of concern in their own right.

This thread is an extreme oversimplification that makes winning in the NFL sound a lot simpler and easier than it actually is. As if other teams will just lay down when you start blocking and tackling. Blocking and tackling don't elevate a team from complete ineptitude to winning. They would in theory elevate a team from ineptitude to competitiveness in a best case scenario. It takes a lot more than just solid blocking and tackling to consistently win in this league. And that will include taking a hard look at the talent level at every position including the QB position.

Quote from: T200 on October 11, 2023, 08:08:13 AMI see that a lot of folks want to focus on just ONE aspect of what's going wrong, despite there being a laundry list of issues. They are all intertwined and one unit affects another.

I don't know. I think we're all unified on the need to gut the OL and start over. For me personally, I want to hang on to Thomas and Schmitz and replace everyone else. If it takes 2-3 years to completely turn over so be it.

But I also understand that Daniel Jones is not the answer at the QB position. And that's where the divide is. There are people who say Jones can't be properly evaluated or no one can be successful behind this OL. I don't think you'll find anyone here who will defend the OL and say they can't be properly evaluated or deserve more time and grace.

If Eli Manning at his best were QBing this offense, I have no doubt they would be somewhat better. Not good, but not historically bad. The OL would still be terrible and in need of replacement but prime Eli would give you a professional QB performance.

I remember Ereck Flowers rookie year, Eli must have saved him from at least a dozen sacks allowed. Eli was masterful at covering up Flowers mistakes. I never understood why people thought Flowers played well as a rookie. It was all Eli bailing him out over and over again. But Eli was in his mid-30s by then and his decline was already starting.

Another example, people talk about David Carr as if he was a victim in Houston. He was sacked at historical records but as soon as they moved on from Carr and went to Matt Shaub, the number of sacks allowed by Houston went down by more than 50%. It was mostly the same OL but we're supposed to believe that Houston's OL was historically bad for 4 consecutive years and then when they change the QB the same OL is magically serviceable? And they magically went from 28th in passing offense under Carr to 14th under Shaub with largely the same OL personnel. That QB play had nothing to do with it? Sorry but I'm not buying it.

I think the intelligence, instincts and skill of a QB has a very real impact on the OL's statistical performance. This Giants OL is embarrassingly bad and needs to be replaced. But the QBs ineptitude is on him and he also needs to be replaced.

By the way, tremendous post by @babywhales. Good stuff!

Unfortunately, Kurt, it's not just the last two weeks. It's going on 5 years of mediocre or worse QB play. At some point it is what it is and you move on.

@Rambo89 there were some interesting responses to that tweet from AQ Shipley, a 12 year NFL OL...

Hey @NYGToday I understand the negativity towards Neal but before furthering the narrative maybe understand the play before posting what you "think" rather than "know".  Neal  has a sift on backer in empty protection which he does. This is all on Jones. Needs to throw hot!

What does that even mean. Plays are designed with protection rules. It doesnt matter if no one is open. If you have 5 in protection and they bring 6 then you are hot and therefore need to throw hot to someone or throw away so you dont take sack. That is how plays work. You always want to leave the widest because he will take longest to get to qb.

Also just so you know thats how every protection is. Back has his responsibility and line has theres. If back is out on route the line has them "all" if more come than you have lineman ball has to get out quick and one of the lineman will have to sift inside and leave the widest unblocked.

The qb always has something built in if they bring more to either side than can protect.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on October 08, 2023, 09:59:51 PMI'd love for nothing more than for Tyrod to get a full game next week, so he can look like an absolute disaster behind this JV OL.

Reality is, the rationale fanbase are able to acknowledge that DJ has not played well while also posting out that absolutely no one could perform well behind this terrible OL.

And those with a DJ bias want to put the blame solely on him. Only way to solve this is to give Tyrod the same xxxx. Granted, even if it happens the DJ haters will just move the goalposts again, but it will be validating all the same.

Problem here is Tyrod is a journeyman with a journeyman's contract. Is it considered moving the goalposts if folks want a true franchise QB rather than a Tyrod type making 40 million? Feels like we're back to arguing between Danny Kanell and Kent Graham.

McKinney's going to walk at the end of the season. Unless they tag him which is unlikely at this point. It might make more sense to ride out the season and hope for a comp pick.

In case anyone was wondering, this is what QB hell looks like. I get that a lot of the fan base wanted to believe in the Daniel Jones fairy tale but it is what it is. He was never going to be the next Eli. He has a lot of special gifts but he can't process fast enough to be that guy. Very few people can.

We obviously need a franchise QB. But we shouldn't be paying franchise money for journeyman results while we're waiting for that guy. Which leads me to wonder whether Schoen and Daboll are capable of leading a successful rebuild. Anyone who agreed
with paying Jones all that money is suspect.

I get that Mara is the ultimate roadblock to progress but Schoen and Daboll also deserve their share of the blame for the team's current state.

Curious how others feel. Are you still confident in Schoen and Daboll leading the rebuild? For the record, you don't rebuild a franchise by investing big money in your mediocre QB. So this would be the first proper rebuild since Gettleman took the keys and drove the franchise even further into a ditch.

Quote from: kingm56 on October 06, 2023, 01:10:49 PMNo comment other than it's great to have you back, Doc.

Thank you, brother! Good to be back.

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 06, 2023, 10:02:51 AMIf there is a completely unaccounted for blitzer/DE it's almost always the QBs fault. Most starting QBs in the NFL are capable of either shifting the blocking to the overload side, or be aware that there is an unblocked man and adjust his decision making on that play accordingly.  If you see Jones dropping back to pass completely unaware of an untouched blitzer...that's his fault.  If the blitzers are all accounted for but Evan Neal completely whiffs on his block as he is want to do...that's on the OL.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 06, 2023, 10:47:35 AMAgain you are ignoring the fact that the QB especially a veteran QB has pre snap responsibilities and should have the awareness to recognize if a blitz is coming and adjust accordingly.  If you watch enough games of other teams you see the elite ones doing so.  As GMO pointed out if the adjustment is made pre snap and someone like Neal or another player on the line misses their block it's a different story nothing you can do about that as a QB.

And BTW you can absolutely throw to a WR before they break their route or aren't looking at the time the ball is released.  It's called anticipating how the play is going to develop.  I showed you the video of Eli doing so with Slayton.  When the ball was released Slayton wasn't open yet Eli put the ball in a perfect spot anticipating Slayton would be there when the ball got there.

Exactly. Football is a game of chess and Jones is out there playing checkers. He got away with it last year (to an extent) but it's caught up to him this year.

In my view Jones doesn't have the mental processing speed to play QB at a high level against a high level of competition. What I think is happening out there now is that Jones is compensating by thinking so far ahead on a given play that he has trouble seeing the basics when the offense lines up. He's struggling with QB 101 concepts.

Daboll and company have to figure out a way to get him back to the basics of being a semi-competent game manager.

I'd say there are three main reasons I might skim or skip a long post:

1. When a post seems to be a little too far-fetched I try to move on. There are times when folks get excited about the team and maybe present their opinions in a way that seems to be a little... tendentious. If you're making a case that every player is an All Pro or on the verge of becoming an All Pro, I think that's great, but I probably won't spend much time on it.

2. Some posters stick to certain topics and keep repeating themselves. Nothing wrong with that but there are only so many ways to repackage the same points. If the first paragraph of a post sounds too familiar, I will often skip it and move on.

3. This site takes pride in being polite and civil but is not always welcoming and friendly to strangers. Some threads seem to be intended for the main group of "insiders" only (i.e. everyone else is ignored). When I come across those threads, I've learned to move on and leave them alone. I know of a couple guys who have moved on from this site because the other sites can be a bit more welcoming to strangers, even if they aren't as polite (i.e. they're willing to engage with strangers). There are a handful of regular posters here who are willing to engage but otherwise, I don't think that's always the case. So when it comes to long posts, I try to stick to threads from some of the friendlier posters like MG, Bob, Tucker and a handful of others.

Having said all that, I find some excellent content in the longer, well thought out posts on this site. Between this site and one other board, plus twitter, I can usually find enough quality Giants content to keep me happy. It beats the old days when I had to wait for the next weekly to come out.