Big Blue Huddle

On the best Giants teams we saw a player development progression where over 2-3 years they went from say marginal backup to a very solid starter or ok starter to impactful starter.  Look at Linval Joseph, Barry Cofield, Kareem McKenzie, David Diehl, Ahmad Bradshaw, etc., etc.

Over the past 10 years, that has really fallen off

How many players on the Giants current roster can you point to and really applaud their development?

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on Today at 06:51:14 AMThe NFL Combine lists him at 6'0½ / 175 lbs. So, if Giants.com is right, then he's grown taller by a couple inches while maintaining his teenage weight, which would make him look like a "walking stick" as he'd be even thinner than when he was 19 yrs old

Personally, I don't think the Giants (or any team) routinely measures and weighs their players and they definitely do not report it to the masses through a media source. Hence, the reason it's almost always done coming out of college in preparation for enormous contracts, so teams know exactly what they're getting (knowing full well programs lie...or putting it more kindly, "exaggerate"). Colleges are notoriously bad at telling the truth about the size of their players...especially basketball where they will call a 6'7 guy, 6'10 in the news or in programs. Regardless, teams misreport player physical data all the time

The military does a good job of measuring (used to anyway, they probably use DNA now). For height, they lay you (naked) flat on your back like on a giant caliper (think shoe-size measuring contraptions at shoe stores) to get exact measurements. Probably because they need the data to identify your dead body in the absence of other identification, should the need be. The combine uses similar methods, including lasers, radar, exacting tools, and other precision equipment, that are not used by teams. Once a player reaches the NFL, height, weight, etc., it is irrelevant and private info, unless the player reveals his personal information. I don't trust any figures released by a team, which probably enters into the legal ramifications of HIPAA laws, if numbers are even close to being precise

If I were to take a gander at a precise height/weight on Flott, I'd put it closer to 6'/190+ lbs. But that's all anyone can do because his real numbers are private

You may be right but I think teams pay close attention to ideal playing weights they want their players to be at and weight train them toward that number.  I would think whereever the player ends up is the weight they post him at each year on their website.  I may be wrong.

In photos he has muscle definition in places like his arms but he is not bulky at all.  He looks 175 to me not 190.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on May 12, 2024, 01:47:47 PMFlott has had 3 years to add muscle and weight. Yet, he is still being judged by his 19-year-old college body. That's the one thing that never gets fixed on the internet...they stick with the last documented weight, speed, strength, etc., which usually comes from the combine or the player's pro-day. Virtually none of the guys at 25/26 could duplicate the numbers they put up in a combine (except strength). Three years in the NFL changes a player in every way imaginable. And speed doesn't get better; however, ability to anticipate and read what is unfolding during a play gets much better

Flott has good instincts and has a football mind. Give him a chance to prove himself before relying on college data that no longer applies. Pretty much dittos with every player in the NFL. Hence the reason so many players who get drafted fail in the NFL...they didn't prepare themselves physically, mentally, and possess the personal drive for taking the next step in their athletic career...and it's a damn big step

On Giants.com he is listed at 6'2" and 175 pounds.  Not a better source than that.  That's rail thin.

It went from 2-0 to 2-2 really quickly.  Dont love that.

Quote from: Trench on May 12, 2024, 02:58:20 PMAnd he had fast feet. Eyes wide open and scared look, locked on every receiver and made horrible decisions. You can attempt to defend it that's fine by me, but he looked overmatched and nervous.

What do you expect? QB behavior changes when trust in OL breaks down.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 12, 2024, 11:11:35 AMI am not sure what the point of that extreme binary question is.   Are you suggesting the offense wouldn't have looked significantly better with their two most important players healthy?

Guys - almost all of the pressure in the Dallas game came from the right side of the OL.  Thomas and Waller would not have mattered.  Neal got destroyed by 9 tech edges and 5-7 tech twists.

For the Giants to be successful, they can't be a one read offense due to poor pass blocking.  If OL blocks successfully then DJ must read everything and let it fly.

Theo Johnson has a great opportunity to leapfrog Bellinger who showed nothing last season.  Be healthy, be a beast blocking and be a threat all over the field. 

I am not going to focus on all these training moments.  Gets way overhyped.

I'll pay attention to more finished products at the end of August.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 12, 2024, 09:25:47 AMWe were told that, yes, by pundits and draftnik types. None of us actually scouted the guy. And by scouting I mean actually going to visits, workouts, interviews, watching Alabama games standing on the sideline, reviewing high school tape, talking to his coaches, talking to opposing coaches, etc. We didn't do the work. The Giants did. The Giants decided they wanted to prioritize Thibodeaux over having the first O line pick in that draft. Would they have taken Ekwonu over Neal? We'll never know that. But their course of action is still their responsibility.

Also what about all his other O line decisions? Why does it just come down to Neal? He could have still done a lot better with the O line than he has, even with the bust Neal pick.

JMS has not looked like a good center yet as a 2nd round pick.  Even if Neal improves, JMS needs a big jump as well.

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 11, 2024, 04:10:17 PMFlott is a backup at best on a good team. I'm putting my money on Hawkins having a breakout season.

I also believe Hawkins starts when the season starts.

Look at how close many of those differences are yet produce big differences in RAS.

Quote from: Gmo11 on May 11, 2024, 05:33:21 PMI would agree with that. But I'd add that Neal was a no brainer pick that any GM in the league (save Gettleman) would have taken in that spot and if he had turned out to be even serviceable that changes things in my opinion. If Neal was good the team would be much better off overall, although they'd still have a QB problem I suppose.

I dont agree that every GM would have taken Neal.  Possible another passes because of his lack of testing or looks at data or does interviews differently.

Would every GM have drafted Saquon and his more obvious talent out of college than Neal?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 11, 2024, 03:04:35 PMFlott's 4.52 40 time is also a bit on the slow side by CB standards.

Maybe not strong enough to press and tie up then recover to chase.

Flott is rail thin.  Good for DeVonta Smith but not big WR