Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: B1GBLUE on November 03, 2023, 04:40:50 PMa coach killer? have ANY of his HC's or OC's gotten another job? had any success? i havent heard anything about pat shurmur. i havent heard anything about joe judge other than going to NE who is now terrible. those coaches did such a poor job coaching the talent around jones. very few qb's have any success in the same situation he has been in. he's not very good, but coach killer is a ridiculous thing to say.

We can argue that was DJ really given a fair shot this year?  Before his injury, he was on pace to be sacked over 100 times this year.  For perspective that's on pace for 30+ more sacks than David Carr.  Yes they got him weapons but without any protection it was more of a disservice to DJ than really being beneficial.

At this point we really have no option but to look for another QB.  Even if DJ balls out the rest of the season, the physical beating he's had over the past 5 years and given with his neck injury, we need a his eventual replacement.

Hopefully a QB that will unite the whole fan base and not divide it like what happened to DJ.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 03, 2023, 06:43:47 PMIsn't that the exact point he's making?

I would argue that Shurmur was the one that really gotten the best of DJ in terms of production.  Multiple 4 touchdown games with no real receiving threat.  Shurmur didn't get to have another chance with Jones.

Shurmur was fired not becuase of Jones but how he lost the locker room.

This proves how inept really the owners and management.  If Shurmur had lost the locker room and was dead man walking why draft a QB that is tailor fit for a coach's scheme when your going to fire him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 31, 2023, 08:34:03 AMThe narrative that seems to have been confirmed by the Giants is that DJ saw his spine specialist before the game and was cleared for contact.  The Giants couldn't activate him for the game because they designated him "out" Friday.   

Now I can understand the reluctance to play DJ on Sunday.  The Jets defense is fierce, and it was supposed to be rainy, and DJ hadn't practiced with the offense for three weeks (he was taking scout team snaps when he was cleared to practice with no contact).

Still, when Tyrod got hurt (which came as a surprise to no one), DJ, without practice with the offense, would have been a superior option to DeVito, whom the coaches didn't trust to pass the ball.   Had DJ come in for Taylor, the odds of winning the game would have been substantially higher.

I'd save you the trouble.  The blunder of this staff was not going for it on 4th down.  You make it its game over.  You don't that's another 10 yards or so that the Jets had to drive to kick a game tying field goal.

Not to letting Gano play who apparently was injured and is now on IR.  For all the right calls this staff has done last year, they have undone this year on epic proportions.

Don't even get me started on the blunder before halftime on the Bills game greatly affected the outcome of that game.

Quote from: T200 on October 11, 2023, 08:17:26 AMAfter getting more money than he deserves, he'd be a fool to take that stance.

How is that so?

Andrew Thomas gets to sit back and recover  for as long as needed for his injury which is a hamstring.

Your QB, whom you have invested money to, which is the most important player on the team, who has his second injury to his neck ala if another serious one occurs means paralysis or worse, is not afforded the same time to recover? Especially with how atrocious the whole oline has been.

Then you are merely send your QB out on the field to be killed.  It is a suicide mission as to what Rich alludes to.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 11, 2023, 07:35:45 AMWhy not fix the Offensive Line and actually find out what this QB can and can't do?

For now, sign Collins and get him and Pugh inserted into that Lineup on the Right side.

The problem is with the unnecessary beating that DJ has taken its too little too late.  He has if not already entered into David Carr territory.

Rushed throws even when there's no pressure.  On top if that injuring his neck which was a major concern 2 years ago.

If I was in DJs shoes I'd tell management I'm not stepping on that field until Andrew Thomas suits up.

The big red flag for me is having you QB still on the field when the game is already decided.  Is it simply to have the other team continue to beat him into oblivion.  On top of that knowing your line is not going to hold up why are we still running spread offense and continue to pass the ball unnecessarily.  You committed a lot of money to the player just to have him be a punching bag for the other team just makes no sense to me.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:14:51 PMThink it comes down to if you are Schoen and are in a position to draft someone who you consider to be an elite QB prospects in 2024 you make the move because if you don't and just roll with Daniel Jones in 2024 you may not be given the opportunity to draft a QB in 2025 if things also go south in 2024.

I'm leaning on QB as well considering how we whiffed on Neal and not changes/adjustments have been made (ie Bobby Johnson is still part of the coaching staff) I don't have confidence on this team drafting a Tackle early and developing that player properly.

Honestly, I need Schoen to admit they missed on Neal and at least salvage him by sliding him to Guard and let Euzudu play RT when Thomas comes back.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:02:34 PMI still question whether John Mara will allow Schoen to draft a QB to replace Daniel Jones but I don't watch much of any College Football so I will defer to you all who do.  Interested in @Gmo11 thoughts as he was someone years ago who was high on Herbert and obviously nailed it.

You know I'm a Jones supporter and even say he gets out of this funk when the line miraculously gets better, but Mara needs to take a long hard look at DJ's health and assess his realistic longevity with the team.

Considering we are at week 6 already, as a Giant tradition, it's time to talk draft picks.  (To reiterate this is a reflection on the frustration and disappointment I've had with this team which is at an all time high as far back as the punt return for a TD to DJax)

Given the injuries to DJ and how we have destroyed his development,  the Giants need to look forward for his long term replacement.

 So which if the QB prospectd out there should we take a long hard look and why.

Share your thoughts.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 11:51:41 AMAgain look at the Bears and Cardinals.  The Bears best QB that I can remember is Jay Cutler.  They've been a rotation of bad QB's that change frequently.  Then you have the Cardinals who a year after drafting Rosen dumped him to draft Murray.  Now they are looking to get him.

Unless you are in a situation like Mahomes was being drafted 10th when the team drafting him traded up chances are you are going to be drafted by a franchise that's a mess.  Trevor Lawrence was and yet he has succeeded in Jacksonville.

Maybe you don't remember but at the time Coughlin didn't have the best reputation as being a player friendly coach after the way things ended in Jacksonville. 

They cut ties with Meyer and got Pedersen to help develop Lawrence.  While DJ had a coach who knew how to use him and they let him go to get Judge/Garrett.  That's the complete opposite.

They also went into free agency to add talent to the WR group who actually have produced.  Did Golladay do anything for us to help with the development of DJ?  No.  Has Waller helped bailing out DJ thus far?  No - in fact you put number 88 on him and you could swear it's like having Engram with his case of dropsies.

Not to mention aside from the media @$s kissing that Lawrence gets, he doesn't have half the fan base bashing him.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 11:44:13 AMWe could have had the same conversation in 2004 as to why would anyone want to come to the Giants after the Dave Brown, Kannel and Graham debacles along with Kerry Collins in the disaster of a 2003 season?  Yet Eli Manning still wanted to come here over San Diego.

We had TC.  He has a track record even with the Jaguars - as new franchise they were competitive during his tenure there.  We also had a good GM and a well respected owner.  That is completely different now.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 10:45:32 AMTeams that are in a position to draft a QB at the top of the draft typically aren't ideal situations which is why those teams are at the top of the draft.  You can take this and also apply it to teams like the Bears and Cardinals who will also be in that position.

And BTW it makes no sense to bring up point number 3 then finish off the post by going after the coaches.  You can't complain about instability and in the same breath go after the coach in year 2.  At some point you need to give one of these guys a third season and coming off a playoff appearance and win in year one I think Daboll has earned that.

Given with the track record our team has going back to 2008 do you have any confidence in being able to put a young QB coming in here to develop properly?

We couldn't even protect Eli let a alone a rookie who will be thrown into the fire day 1.

Then we're going to hear the same arguments made by those who supported DJ - well he doesn't have protection.  He doesn't enough talent around him.  There no competent coaches to develop him properly and 5 years down the line were back to square one.

It's called NFL for a reason - Not For Long - and the product that Dabes and Co are putting out there is garbage.  Like I said, he's not going to throw anyone under the bus but there is something wrong in that locker room and Daboll knows it.

From being competitive even in spite of the lack of talent to supposedly better talent all around and getting blown out  is absolutely alarming.

Quote from: True Blue on October 10, 2023, 10:53:47 AMEli Manning played 16 seasons. I can appreciate arguments on how certain things were handled, absolutely love the guy. But he did enjoy a long and successful career

He was a class act, who's play on the field matched up to his character. Would have loved to have him longer but prolonging his career is not something I would say the Giants failed to do.

I said that in the context that we could still have competed even in the latter years of Eli's career had management/coaching given him help in the oline.

Would you want the Giants to draft you?

1. Given what this team has done to Eli Manning - not giving a competent oline to prolong his career.

2. How inept this organization is in drafting and/or developing talent at the oline - this is going back all the way to 2008 when we last had a dominant oline.

3. The instability of management/coaching staff.  It's like we're looking for new coaches every two or three years.

4. How brutal the fanbase is here and how the media will put you under a microscope.

On a side note I know Daboll won coach of the year last year but this team has made a complete 180 from what it was last year.  Stupid untimely penalties that kill momentum/drives.  Getting the plays late which has lead to unnecessary delay of games.  Not to mention that absolute lack of effort especially in the offense.  During Judge we were incompetent also offensively but were not getting the doors blown off us every single game.  Not to mention knowing how incompetent your oline is but leaving your QB out to dry for teams to tee off them in a game that is done by the 3rd quarter is an absolute head scratcher.

Also why is Bobby Johnson still in the staff?

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 05:35:33 AMIf it's not top 5 there will be complaints about Jones not having one.  Bottom line the supporting cast will never be good enough for him unless they completely prop him up.

I get that there are those who argue that Jones needs 100% everything to be perfect from him to produce and albeit I have supported Jones - I agree with you he doesn't need everything to be perfect to produce because we expect franchise QBs to at the very least make up the difference for their team.

Look at DJ in his rookie year - somewhat competent offensive minded HC, mediocre offensive line (https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/09/03/new-york-giants-offensive-line-ranks-17th-latest-pff-rankings/) - mind you thats withouth Andrew Thomas, and his main weapons were Saquon, Sheppard, Tate, Slayton and Engram - I wouldn't necessarily call them world beaters.  He threw for 3,027 yards or 238 per game, 24 tds or 2 tds per game and 2 to 1 TD/INT ratio.  He showed promised.  His main gripe was decision making considering he was rookie and ball protection.

So he has produced even with not the best around him.

If we compare him to the others Burrow - trash oline, but 2 #1 WRs plus Boyd who could be number 1 with our current roster.  Herbert - had a trash oline as a rookie (https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings) but he had Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and Ekeler. 

My point at one time DJ did not have even any of the 3 - oline, weapons, coaching because he was stuck with the ineptitude of Judge/Garrett.

And fast forward to this year where we all believe he was poised for a break out season until the offensive line put on an absolute $hit show.  Even with Lamar with all his athleticism and elusiveness would be destroyed with our offensive line.

At this point in his career - with DJ being damaged as he is due to the offensive line - not just physically but with his psyche also - you see it when he has had time, he was still rushing throws in the fear of being sacked thats why he was short on that throw to Wandale, its time for management to start looking for a long term replacement at QB.

Its unfortunate that a kid who showed a lot of promise his rookie year its nowhere near that given with what this front office and owners have done and have not done to support him and let him develop.  Not to mention half the fan base is trashing you every chance they get - case in point him being booed at Yankee Stadium and many others.  Im amazed that he hasn't thrown the organization, his team mates, his coaches and even the fan base (IE Evan Neal) under the bus.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 09, 2023, 06:57:15 PMOffensive line needs to be in the 1-5 range for Daniel Jones anything less is unacceptable. 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-2023-offseason

PFF had us projected with at 29 and this is with the addition of JMS along with last year's performance.  We were garbage last year as far as the oline goes but we were 18th in total yards, 26 in passing and 4th in rushing, 18th in scoring on the first year of a new offense.  It wasn't good but at least we were competing and not getting the doors blown off by the second quarter.  Nowhere near the $hit show we've seen since the beginning of the season - and yes Thomas was playing in the first game.  So DJ does not need a top 5 o-line to be competent.  He just needs one to let him at least hit the top of his drop to at least make a read and throw the ball. 


How is it that with better skill position players the offense as a whole has fallen off the face of the earth.  I swear if these bums are not just dogging it out there or something else is the issue.  Because to be this historically bad as an offense is unheard of.