Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jclayton92 on Today at 11:29:18 AMAt one point is it Jones?

In Jones' career has he ever had a top receiving threat to throw to?

In Jones' career has he ever been protected by a top 16 O-line (with most years being protected by a bottom 5)

Jones has been throw 3 HCs and 4 OCs in his 5 years.

Are you totally ruling out the possibility that the Oline is at least middle of the pack and the receivers prove to be actual NFL-caliber weapons; Combined with pretty good coaching, is it possible that Daniel Jones can have a pretty good season?
 

Not to drag this never-ending discussion out, but let me tell you a story about Terry Bradshaw. The first overall pick in 1970. In the first five years of his career, he threw 77 interceptions. His average QB rating was in the mid-50s, with a low of 34 and a high point of 64.1 (the only time he had a QB rating in the 60s). He was ridiculed by fans and analysts alike. He was called a bust and a rural hick that would never adjust to the sophistication of the NFL

After 5 years of hell, he only was a 4× Super Bowl champion (IX, X, XIII, XIV); 2× Super Bowl MVP (XIII, XIV); NFL Most Valuable Player (1978); First-team All-Pro (1978); 3× Pro Bowl (1975, 1978, 1979); 2× NFL passing touchdowns leader (1978, 1982); NFL 1970s All-Decade Team; and is enshrined in the Football Hall of Fame

The list is endless of QBs who had a tough going from the start (especially when going to a bad team and a revolving door of coaches and schemes), but patience sometimes pays off. As a note: DJ has been immensely better than Bradshaw in his first 5 years, who threw 40 interceptions (for which he was taken to the wood shed by everyone with a keyboard), and has had QB ratings of 87.7 (2019), followed by 80.4, 84.8, 92.5, and 70.5...and he has done so working behind the worst rated OL in the NFL and no star receivers. Let that sink in

Can't we all just get behind our QB and watch to see what happens. No one is going to change their opinion on DJ because a person brings up the exact same argument every day (often more than that, every day) for two years. No one is changing their minds after 1,356 posts with the same argument because the person repeated it 1,357 times and it finally "clicked". If a point in an argument is valid and obvious, it only has to be said once, otherwise, it's just an opinion stuck on repeat, like a broken record

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:15:30 AMJess,

You were one of those who had written DJ's obituary before, only to discover you were premature.  Why do you think you are correct this time?

virtually every major Nfl analyst and fan has acknowledged how horrible signing Jones was, so how was I premature?

There might be a handful of people including yourself that believe that the 2022 season was something other than a great mirage hiding Jones warts.

At one point is it Jones? Honestly what is it going to take because it is absurd at this point given his play.

That's how desperate this franchise has become for competent qb play that the fans are ok holding onto a backup qb for half a decade while other teams shed their bad mistakes immediately. Trubisky, Lance, Darnold, Wilson, fields etc teams shed them immediately and at this point I'd rather have most of those guys over Jones.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:37:43 AMIn the 2022 offseason, most considered Daniel Jones a dead man walking. 

Consider:

1) The Giants passed on exercising DJ's 5th-year option

2) The Giants signed Tyrod Taylor who many fans claimed was as good or better than Jones (he did have a Pro Bowl to his resume)

3) Jones had injury issues and needed to prove he could stay healthy

4) Worst of all, Jones was going to have to prove himself behind a mediocre, at best, O-line with no significant receiving targets.  He would get a bit of a tangential boost from Barkley (who already lost something after his major knee injury)

Everyone was writing Daniel Jones off, there was much talk about the QBs in the draft. Only Daniel Jones decided he wasn't ready to be dead and buried.  He dragged his under-talented team to the playoffs and beat the 13-4 Vikings in the hostile Minnesota stadium.  He earned himself a solid contract.

From Daniel's perspective, this is just deja vue all over again.  I am not suggesting that Jones will stay healthy and knock it out of the park.  I am just suggesting we shouldn't be shocked if Jones plays like a franchise QB and takes the team to the playoffs again while at least staying healthy enough.

It's definitely a deja vu situation. The schedule is roughly comparable, and the off-season moves have been made to improve his supporting cast. So, for all intent and purpose, it's a one-year "prove-it" deal for him.

I agree that this is about as good a situation that he will have as a New York Giant and so now it is time to be as objective as possible, without mitigating circumstances, to fairly evaluate his performance (i.e. not Super Bowl QB or bust, but an honest QB assessment).

Peace!

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 10:38:28 AMRic,

I agree in terms of how you see players contributing this year. Muasau is a special teams ace.  He is likely going to push Carter Coughlin off the roster.   So his role will be ST ace who won't be a huge liability if he is forced to take some snaps at ILB. 

He was a tackling machine in college, and Lord knows our run defense can use all the help it can get.  I hope that he emerges as that guy.

Based on his class and work ethic, Jones is an easy guy to root for, but I have a hard time picturing him at quarterback after 2026 for a myriad of reasons.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 09:04:28 AM@Ed Vette that was some turnaround.  Prior to the draft you were talking about how excited you were, how this was the most important draft, and even threw in a reference to the multiverse.  Now you seem absolutely crestfallen.


As to the question, I think this team is moving in the right direction.  I appreciate the team lost Barkley and McKinney, but in my mind, it's not about adding good players; it's about adding impact players.  While it's not unreasonable to label both Barkley and McKinney as good, neither really made an impact on the team nor its fortunes.

Now, with the qualifier that this is a speculative thread and question, so we are projecting the play of players, I see the following:

On offense, the Giants added Nabers, who I feel will have a significant positive impact. He will do that by not only giving the quarterback an open target but also adding significant YAC, something this offense hasn't had in quite some time.

I also see players making bigger positive impacts this year than last, including JMS, Hyatt, Robinson, and Daniel Jones (if he stays healthy).

I wouldn't be surprised if Theo Johnson and Tyrone Tracy are year-one contributors.

I don't believe there will be a drop off at RB

At QB, I am concerned about DJ's ability to stay healthy, but I am intrigued as to what Drew Lock can bring to the table.  He always had talent, but from what I hear, he finally "gets it" in terms of what it take to be an NFL QB.

Still, the biggest problem with the offense was the offensive line. I hope that when we look back on next season, we will say the biggest addition to the team was O-line coach Carmen Bricillo.  Adding a bunch of proven veterans to pair with the younger players seems to be a wise move at this point.

On Defense, I don't have any reason to believe that Shane Bowen isn't a competent DC.  The addition of Burns and the day two DBs were nice additions.  There were already some solid contributors with Dex, Thibs, and Okereka.  There is no reason to think the Giants can't field at least a middle-of-the-pack defense with some potential upside.


Coaching is an interesting issue.  I have gone on record that I didn't like how the Giants handled the situation.  Still, if one wants to take the optimistic view, Daboll's staff should at least all be on the same page and follow Daboll's vision for how the team should be run.  That has the potential to make things much better for the team.

So all-in-all I am cautiously optimistic

You're one of three fans on this poll who is excited. When I said this was a pivotal and important draft, I stand by that. IMO, they needed to draft a QB, even if it was the one you pushed that I said I needed more information on. I would have been happy with JJ McCarthy. Not with Jones for a 6th season.

Quote from: MightyGiants on Today at 11:04:08 AMTo clarify, you don't see an MVP season from Jones; I don't think anyone has suggested that, and I would agree that it would be shocking to see an MVP-like season.  On the other hand, you seem to suggest DJ can't improve his 2022 performance.   That strikes at the point I was making with this thread.  It's far from certain that he will improve in 2022, but I would suggest it wouldn't be surprising if Jones had that growth.   

Pretty sure I acknowledged that he could improve upon his 2022 play. That is within the realm of possibility. I'm saying that still won't be enough for him to be the Giants' long-term solution, as I don't see as realistic the level of play necessary in 2024 to sway the Giants from moving on from Jones. To wit, if they thought that was a reasonable scenario, they likely don't fight to pay a premium to draft Maye.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on Today at 10:53:05 AMI don't see a realistic scenario where he is the Giants' long-term solution at QB. And I don't consider Jones magically playing like an MVP-caliber candidate to be realistic. It's possible he replicates 2022--maybe even marginally exceeds it--but that won't be good enough as the deal he got was premised on growth, not stagnation. The Giants gave themselves an out in his contract, as many of us identified at the time, for this precise scenario. I foresee them taking it.

To clarify, you don't see an MVP season from Jones; I don't think anyone has suggested that, and I would agree that it would be shocking to see an MVP-like season.  On the other hand, you seem to suggest DJ can't improve his 2022 performance.   That strikes at the point I was making with this thread.  It's far from certain that he will improve in 2022, but I would suggest it wouldn't be surprising if Jones had that growth.